Spirit of NKS
01-23-2015 | 09:22 AM
#9901
escaped
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 227
Likes: 0
This cannot be considered a middle solution.
Too lopsided to the company's favor.
What are we gaining, 2hrs?
Company's savings are substantially larger, than they are sharing.
I do not expect to split the savings, however this is peanuts.
Is this an indication of future negotiations?
Management is banking on the commuting inconvenience, as leverage.
If we are required to do training on base, then we should bid for those days.
If this is the product of negotiations, what was the company's initial position?
Too lopsided to the company's favor.
What are we gaining, 2hrs?
Company's savings are substantially larger, than they are sharing.
I do not expect to split the savings, however this is peanuts.
Is this an indication of future negotiations?
Management is banking on the commuting inconvenience, as leverage.
If we are required to do training on base, then we should bid for those days.
If this is the product of negotiations, what was the company's initial position?
01-23-2015 | 09:24 AM
#9902
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 758
Likes: 1
Well I guess if the majority wants to settle for similar rates to these, then this will be all we have to look forward to. The rates in the current CBA are flawed in that the longevity increases are non-linear. Fixing that is important. VX has new rates coming soon, great for them. But do you really see VX as a peer pilot group? We fly the same airplanes yes, but while we are about to have our 3rd CBA become ammendable they are only just trying a 2nd attempt at unionizing. JetBlue is closer, but still working on a 1st CBA. When you consider the growth and profitability of Spirit, and the maturity of our collective bargaining, I think there only 2 peer airlines as we go into negotiations, SWA and Alaska. What do you all think?
But I'll disagree that our contract is mature. As you know, C1999 was just a codification of existing Supplemental work conditions. C2003 was a slight rewrite and C2010 was another slight rewrite. Since you and I sat in new hire GS, the only real difference between the then existing CBA and now - is in hourly pay rates. The 5/4 days off was extant. No forced flying was extant. True transition conflict was extant, and was given away in C2003 (post Sept11 conditions) and then partially regained in C2010. We had a daily guarantee, which was given away in C2003 (again, in the post Sept11 environment) and not regained in C2010.
I could go on, but realistically we are on our first re-negotiation not affected by: terrorism, SARS, worldwide economic collapse, etc.
IOW, we need to focus on far more than hourly rates.
Hourly rates need to increase.
Pay rates need to be flattened out as you mention.
Fatigue protection needs improvement.
Long Term Disability needs improvement.
We need Short Term Disability.
Retirement, well we need some sort of retirement.
And much more I'm sure.
01-23-2015 | 09:27 AM
#9903
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 758
Likes: 1
ditto
extra characters added to satisfy posting requirements.
01-23-2015 | 09:33 AM
#9904
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 758
Likes: 1
Yeah, the ipads are coming and we already have protections in our CBA on what happens if they are damaged. But apparently we need LOA language to help create fences on the ipad so that pilots can surf porn on the ipad while on a layover. Seriously, do we really need an LOA to help people surf for porn, in private, on a company ipad?
Next thing you know, we'll have to give them a Amex Gold card along with signing the release. Just in case the MCDU dies on our watch. Those MCDU's are pretty freaking awesome you know. I'm so happy that Spirit doesn't make me fly with an RMI anymore, I think I'll just buy them an EFIS.
01-23-2015 | 10:11 AM
#9905
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 173
Likes: 0
From everything I'm hearing, the status quo regarding training is changing. The majority of us will be taking a pay cut because of it. The LOA may gain us back an hour or two of that pay possibly, at the expense of doing training in our off time. I've reached a decision to vote No. Management can force this pay cut upon us, but I'm not going to agree to it myself. Maybe that's ignorant in some people's mind, but oh well. To those that thought this LOA was magnanimous on management's part need only to see it was merely an iron fist in a velvet glove. Let them spend the money on infrastructure to accommodate all of us coming to base to do ground. Let them continue to schedule days of training at the expense of revenue producing flying. Or let them give us a better deal. I won't vote in my own pay cut, sorry.
01-23-2015 | 10:25 AM
#9906
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 2,385
Likes: 0
From: Airplane
New email out from MEC with Q&A attached.
01-23-2015 | 10:31 AM
#9907
Line Holder
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 27
Likes: 0
From: Missionary
Im still hung up on what "fair market value" is on a iPad that gets broken, stolen, etc. With no maximum out of pocket defined to replace it. No for me.
01-23-2015 | 11:08 AM
#9908
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 166
Likes: 0
This tells me everything I need to know.
Q4. If the Company could just implement the EFB/DL anyway, why would they
agree to an LOA with ALPA?
While they can implement both EFB and DL without an LOA, only a subset of
the potential cost savings would be realized.
Q5. Why didn’t we negotiate the EFB LOA separately from the DL LOA?
The Company had nothing to gain by granting additional EFB protections.
Accordingly, they initially refused to negotiate on the subject. Only by
combining the two LOAs into one could we find agreement on the additional
EFB protections.
I refuse to agree to a pay cut. If they want to force things on us fine, but Im not giving them anything without a fight, even if it costs me a couple hundred bucks a year.
If they go down the path they are threatening I expect the union to fight them every step of the way.
Q4. If the Company could just implement the EFB/DL anyway, why would they
agree to an LOA with ALPA?
While they can implement both EFB and DL without an LOA, only a subset of
the potential cost savings would be realized.
Q5. Why didn’t we negotiate the EFB LOA separately from the DL LOA?
The Company had nothing to gain by granting additional EFB protections.
Accordingly, they initially refused to negotiate on the subject. Only by
combining the two LOAs into one could we find agreement on the additional
EFB protections.
I refuse to agree to a pay cut. If they want to force things on us fine, but Im not giving them anything without a fight, even if it costs me a couple hundred bucks a year.
If they go down the path they are threatening I expect the union to fight them every step of the way.
01-23-2015 | 11:16 AM
#9909
Thread Starter
Banned
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,857
Likes: 0
I'm hung up on the pay vs the enormous savings that this iPad and DL will give to the company. I just don't see why we don't get the full 18hr paid.
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