horrido27

I'm not going to Negotiate in Public.. But on a FB group I mentioned this-
No Increase in B Fund
No Change in Trip/Duty Rig
No Change in normal Sick Time Accural
No Change in Vacation Credit
No Change in LTD BFund Contribution
Lower than expect LTD amount

Pay rates are one part of the formula that amounts to our W-2. At the end of the day, this thing didn't even come close to what I had requested. Mind you, the last time they asked for pilot info about an updated UPA was 4 years ago...

I have no problem admitting when I'm wrong. I was wrong on this one as I NEVER expected to see a TA this year. NEVER.
Who would have thought that our own union would put out something this ****ty?! Who?!

As crazy as 2022 was gonna be, July just stepped up and said-
"Hold My Bier"

Fly Safe, Fly Professional and Fly the Contract
Always
Motch

AntiPeter

A quick turnaround is possible. It just depends how much pain pilots want to inflict on Kirby.

The airline is dysfunctional now, barely operational. A slight nudge would literally…

But, as Charlie Sheen said, leverage is a fickle b@&ch, my friend.

The company can not sustain operations this summer with fussy employees. The pilots hold all the cards this summer, but for some reason they are terrified to use the hand they’ve been dealt.

This comes along, what? Once a career? Choose wisely.

AxlF16

I agree about the leverage. My question is whether this TA can be fixed enough to get my yes vote. I would still vote no if the pay was increased by 10%.

Grumble

Agreed, this TA isn’t about money… it’s about everything else.

The chump change thrown at us to give up so much QOL is just a slap in the face on top of a kick in the balls.

BobbyLeeSwagger

😂😂 right?

Filler

fadec

No QOL gives. This isn't the time to give. The second TA must reset to the current contract except

1) 16 LC / 4 SC hour reserve call-out,

​​​​​2) 1400 first day reserve,

3) fix late and extensions pay,

4) incentivize TK/LCA with QOL not just pay,

5) 13/14 day off min for all,

6) fix vacation pay,

7) fix training pay,

8) increase LTD,

9) apply 8 weeks birthing pilot leave to other situations such as bereavement, marriage, divorce, and fatherhood,

10) Increase and pay out sick time,

11) No FSBY
12) Fix SC targeted/opportunistic assignment.


Did I get everything? Oh yes, and pay that matches inflation. Screw your money. I don't want extra, but if you're going to double+ ticket prices then ****? An hour of captain pay used to buy a $300 ticket. Now that same ticket is $700 and gas, food, houses, etc have partied with that. I just want my old rate back.

JustNarced

The Fed is backed into a corner. They can't raise rates much further or the debt will become unserviceable. The market is marching higher because everyone is starting to realize a: QT isn't going to happen, and b: the Fed is going to halt rate hikes end of Q2 2022. There only way out is to make inflation permanent, inflate the debt away and grow GDP.

No, this isn't the 1970s. Back then debt wad only 25% of GDP.

A 9.5% raise will be a collasal failure.

Lewbronski

If your pilots engage in any kind of concerted work action, you risk getting a restraining order slapped on your union and/or an enormous fine levied against the union and, possibly, individual pilots. APA got fined $45 million in 1999 ($79 million in 2022 dollars) and the court said in 2001 that Delta could go after individual pilots if DALPA couldn’t rein in their pilots. So, know the risk. But maybe it’d be worth it if it produces results.

To prove a concerted action, UA wouldn’t really need to establish that any kind of conspiracy among pilots exists. They’d just need to prove via easily producible data that there had been a dramatic uptick in sick calls or a downturn in picking up of open time or whatever as of a certain date.

What management, the courts, and even the AFA realize is labor’s strongest leverage is the ability to pose the realistic threat of legal self help. Regarding their CHAOS strikes (legally available only after a release to self help), the AFA explained, “CHAOS is AFA's trademarked strategy of intermittent strikes and other non-traditional work actions. It is an integral part of our public contract campaign, and the strongest weapon in our arsenal.”

Since you guys haven’t even entered mediation, you pose ZERO threat of self help to management. You’ve stripped yourself of your strongest weapon. You’ve willingly decided to show up at a gun fight with just your fists.

At your guys’ TA road shows, ask your reps why they never filed for mediation in the 3.5+ years since they began talking to the company.. Maybe there’s a good reason for it that I can’t fathom. If they can’t produce a good reason, maybe you ought to begin an immediate recall campaign and seek, if your constitution allows, to delay or cancel the TA vote.

Excargodog

EXCEPT:

All pilot groups have been saying for some time they are understaffed and current conditions are unsustainable. And that is fact. The definition of unsustainable is that it will be IMPOSSIBLE to sustain current operations. That isn’t even just pilots, it’s ATC and ground ops as well. Management in all operations, ground, air, scheduling, ATC, have screwed the pooch.

There ARE going to be IROPS and an IROP in any major airline has an excellent chance of having a domino effect in others.

watch what happens the 4th.

There are gonna be fireworks aplenty, despite everyone best effort. And even the Supreme Court lacks the power to command people not to wear out.

Lewbronski

Back in October, SWA had a meltdown that followed right after SWAPA losing the court battle against the vaccine mandate. Much of the flying public, especially those that were more politically conservative, believed that the meltdown was caused by an organized effort of SWA pilots in response to the vaccine issue.

It wasn’t, but a lot of people thought it was. Both SWAPA and SWA management went to great lengths to deny that what happened had anything to do with labor discontent.

Did it result in any downturn in bookings (what management really cares about)? I don’t think so because it hasn’t made SWA management any more amenable to negotiating in good faith than before that episode. BTW, SWA is also not in mediation with us (no comment).

So, there might be similarities between that situation and what you’re talking about for the 4th. It doesn’t seem to have produced much of an effect here at SWA. But maybe your guys situation is different enough that you will have better luck.