View Poll Results: T/A Vote Yes or No
Yes
50
9.38%
No
483
90.62%
Voters: 533. You may not vote on this poll
Yes or No
06-26-2022, 04:02 PM
#141
line slug
Joined APC: Oct 2015
Position: B777 Captain
Posts: 178
Originally Posted by AxlF16
How much of a pay increase would it take for you to accept the other parts of this TA?
To me, the whole thing looks like a concessionary deal.
06-26-2022, 04:29 PM
#142
New Hire
Joined APC: Oct 2015
Posts: 8
Originally Posted by 130av8er
This things a Turd with Poopy flavored icing on top.
Annual Inflation
2021 7.0%
2022 8.6% (so far)
2023 3.0% (being kind here)
2024 3.0% (and here)
21.6% cummulative
Pay Raise 14% - 21.6% YOY Inflation = -7.6% (a PAY CUT )
Annual Inflation
2021 7.0%
2022 8.6% (so far)
2023 3.0% (being kind here)
2024 3.0% (and here)
21.6% cummulative
Pay Raise 14% - 21.6% YOY Inflation = -7.6% (a PAY CUT )
U.S. inflation rate for 2020 was 1.23%
U.S. inflation rate for 2019 was 1.81%
U.S. inflation rate for 2018 was 2.44%
U.S. inflation rate for 2017 was 2.13%
Not real big numbers, but still, it all adds up.
You can't polish a turd, but you can roll it in glitter.
06-26-2022, 04:44 PM
#143
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2018
Position: A320 FO
Posts: 255
Originally Posted by Lax Dad
Keep going...
U.S. inflation rate for 2020 was 1.23%
U.S. inflation rate for 2019 was 1.81%
U.S. inflation rate for 2018 was 2.44%
U.S. inflation rate for 2017 was 2.13%
Not real big numbers, but still, it all adds up.
You can't polish a turd, but you can roll it in glitter.
U.S. inflation rate for 2020 was 1.23%
U.S. inflation rate for 2019 was 1.81%
U.S. inflation rate for 2018 was 2.44%
U.S. inflation rate for 2017 was 2.13%
Not real big numbers, but still, it all adds up.
You can't polish a turd, but you can roll it in glitter.
2022 is currently 8.6%
06-26-2022, 04:47 PM
#144
Banned
Joined APC: May 2022
Posts: 411
Originally Posted by jdavk
Speaking for myself (I realize you weren’t asking me), I honestly don’t know. This thing is such a steaming pile of horse manure that I’m not sure I could ever accept this TA.
To me, the whole thing looks like a concessionary deal.
To me, the whole thing looks like a concessionary deal.
06-26-2022, 05:06 PM
#145
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2022
Posts: 225
If this had 15% DOS and 5% each year for two years, it would pass.
Nobody cares that much about reserves, it’s just a focal point for the section 3 peops. In aggregate I’d say this is better than what we have, but the lack of pace with inflation, combined with some very prominent “gives (including some of the bizarre LCA changes), makes this an obvious “NO,” for everyone outside of TK.
I honestly can’t understand how the company or union thought this would help Unfilled CA positions. I didn’t want to believe the union could be this ignorant, but here we are.
Nobody cares that much about reserves, it’s just a focal point for the section 3 peops. In aggregate I’d say this is better than what we have, but the lack of pace with inflation, combined with some very prominent “gives (including some of the bizarre LCA changes), makes this an obvious “NO,” for everyone outside of TK.
I honestly can’t understand how the company or union thought this would help Unfilled CA positions. I didn’t want to believe the union could be this ignorant, but here we are.
06-26-2022, 05:48 PM
#146
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2010
Position: DOWNGRADE COMPLETE: Thanks Gary. Thanks SWAPA.
Posts: 6,613
Originally Posted by Lewbronski
If your pilots engage in any kind of concerted work action, you risk getting a restraining order slapped on your union and/or an enormous fine levied against the union and, possibly, individual pilots. APA got fined $45 million in 1999 ($79 million in 2022 dollars) and the court said in 2001 that Delta could go after individual pilots if DALPA couldn’t rein in their pilots. So, know the risk. But maybe it’d be worth it if it produces results.
To prove a concerted action, UA wouldn’t really need to establish that any kind of conspiracy among pilots exists. They’d just need to prove via easily producible data that there had been a dramatic uptick in sick calls or a downturn in picking up of open time or whatever as of a certain date.
What management, the courts, and even the AFA realize is labor’s strongest leverage is the ability to pose the realistic threat of legal self help. Regarding their CHAOS strikes (legally available only after a release to self help), the AFA explained, “CHAOS is AFA's trademarked strategy of intermittent strikes and other non-traditional work actions. It is an integral part of our public contract campaign, and the strongest weapon in our arsenal.”
Since you guys haven’t even entered mediation, you pose ZERO threat of self help to management. You’ve stripped yourself of your strongest weapon. You’ve willingly decided to show up at a gun fight with just your fists.
At your guys’ TA road shows, ask your reps why they never filed for mediation in the 3.5+ years since they began talking to the company.. Maybe there’s a good reason for it that I can’t fathom. If they can’t produce a good reason, maybe you ought to begin an immediate recall campaign and seek, if your constitution allows, to delay or cancel the TA vote.
To prove a concerted action, UA wouldn’t really need to establish that any kind of conspiracy among pilots exists. They’d just need to prove via easily producible data that there had been a dramatic uptick in sick calls or a downturn in picking up of open time or whatever as of a certain date.
What management, the courts, and even the AFA realize is labor’s strongest leverage is the ability to pose the realistic threat of legal self help. Regarding their CHAOS strikes (legally available only after a release to self help), the AFA explained, “CHAOS is AFA's trademarked strategy of intermittent strikes and other non-traditional work actions. It is an integral part of our public contract campaign, and the strongest weapon in our arsenal.”
Since you guys haven’t even entered mediation, you pose ZERO threat of self help to management. You’ve stripped yourself of your strongest weapon. You’ve willingly decided to show up at a gun fight with just your fists.
At your guys’ TA road shows, ask your reps why they never filed for mediation in the 3.5+ years since they began talking to the company.. Maybe there’s a good reason for it that I can’t fathom. If they can’t produce a good reason, maybe you ought to begin an immediate recall campaign and seek, if your constitution allows, to delay or cancel the TA vote.
06-26-2022, 07:38 PM
#147
Banned
Joined APC: May 2022
Posts: 411
Originally Posted by awax
0600 reserve call out assures that commuters are forced to spend a previous day off to commute in.
That alone is worth flushing this turd.
it’s NOT a money contract and it’s not a work rules contract.
That alone is worth flushing this turd.
it’s NOT a money contract and it’s not a work rules contract.
06-27-2022, 03:26 AM
#148
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Sleeping in the black swan’s nest.
Posts: 5,709
Originally Posted by Mytime2025
Just talking to folks out on the line I have a better chance of dressing up in ballerina outfit and telling a hells angel to go f himself than this pos passing.
06-27-2022, 04:45 AM
#149
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2020
Posts: 2,219
Originally Posted by Chowdah
If this had 15% DOS and 5% each year for two years, it would pass.
