Agreement In Principle
05-24-2022 | 12:00 PM
#531
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Well, since 'ALPA' obviously voted in favor of accepting the TA and sending it to MR it's no surprise the overall push is for a 'yes' vote (assuming that's what happens). There is a mechanism whereby dissenting LEC members (if any) can share their opinions with the pilots. I expect the people that negotiated the TA (and supporting SMEs) to provide their negotiating goals and an honest assessment of where they settled on the continuum. You can call that a sell job if you want, but I don't see any way around this process. Just putting the TA out there with no commentary or explanation will not, and should not, ever happen. Unlike some people, I have faith in the pilot group to fairly and objectively evaluate the TA and vote appropriately. I'm not sure which idealistic, fairytale world has all the pilots that never vote in blocks, or based on personal interests? That's the case in EVERY democratic vote.
There have been instances where an MEC Yes vote was accompanied by a less than full throated endorsement. Tactical yes but I’m afraid those days are long behind us.
05-24-2022 | 12:27 PM
#533
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Joined: Mar 2006
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From: guppy CA
How come you guys aren't demanding a pay raise while negotiating the rest of the contract?
05-24-2022 | 12:34 PM
#534
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It’s going to be fun if and when the details come out. Not only do we have to determine what’s in the contract, but what will be implemented in future contracts.
05-24-2022 | 01:04 PM
#535
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From: guppy CA
I’ll give you some math. Full disclosure: I’m not a UAL pilot. Just an observer that has a vested interest in pattern bargaining. I’ll use WB CA as an example.
Start at $352 for 2019 pay rate.
Factor in 15% pay raise. 5% from the negotiated LOA and an additional 10% for the CBA. Now we’re at $404.80.
The YoY inflation rate from May 2020 to May 2021 was a flat 5%. That puts you at $425.04.
May 2022 inflation isn’t out yet, but if it’s anything like March and April, it will be around 8%. That clears $459.
Of course, none of this takes into account the fullness of a contract and other QOL improvements that would take away from Section 3. Of course all of this is subjective blathering, but I don’t think it would be unreasonable by any means to ask for this pay rate if the number one focus of negotiations was compensation. Each voter will have to decide the cost of the other QOL “gets” in the TA.
Again, not at UA. But we’re in negotiations where I am, and that is roughly my logic. Arrows away!
Start at $352 for 2019 pay rate.
Factor in 15% pay raise. 5% from the negotiated LOA and an additional 10% for the CBA. Now we’re at $404.80.
The YoY inflation rate from May 2020 to May 2021 was a flat 5%. That puts you at $425.04.
May 2022 inflation isn’t out yet, but if it’s anything like March and April, it will be around 8%. That clears $459.
Of course, none of this takes into account the fullness of a contract and other QOL improvements that would take away from Section 3. Of course all of this is subjective blathering, but I don’t think it would be unreasonable by any means to ask for this pay rate if the number one focus of negotiations was compensation. Each voter will have to decide the cost of the other QOL “gets” in the TA.
Again, not at UA. But we’re in negotiations where I am, and that is roughly my logic. Arrows away!
Where does May 2020-May2021 come from?
You've got $352 in Jan 2019. Good for one year, until Jan 2020. You now need to compute inflation from there.
The best I can read the number on post #424 is that it's $403.45 on Jan 2023 (add one year and due for a pay raise in Jan 2024).
How much inflation do you show from Jan 2020 through April 2022? I show 12.07%
How much inflation are you computing for April 2022 to Jan 2024?
That those two numbers and use $352/hr.
April 2022 to Jan 2024 would have to come in at ~2.9% in order for the leaked numbers to be inflation neutral. We don't know the future inflation numbers but that looks a bit low. 2020's annual inflation rate was 1.4%; 2019 was 2.3%.
05-24-2022 | 01:33 PM
#536
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From: It's a plane and it's a seat
05-24-2022 | 01:42 PM
#537
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Pretty comical response TBH. I chuckled.
What is context?
05-24-2022 | 01:47 PM
#538
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https://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc...1&year2=202204
Inflation calculator. 1 dollar in January 2020 is now 1.12.
Assuming free medical,better retirement, sick bank, pay per day for training/vacation, etc and if we get 5% dos plus 5% on January 1st 2023 and if we get an additional 5% for the LOA (no idea if we will get this) then we are keeping pace with inflation in Section 3 and are ahead and other areas.
Inflation calculator. 1 dollar in January 2020 is now 1.12.
Assuming free medical,better retirement, sick bank, pay per day for training/vacation, etc and if we get 5% dos plus 5% on January 1st 2023 and if we get an additional 5% for the LOA (no idea if we will get this) then we are keeping pace with inflation in Section 3 and are ahead and other areas.
05-24-2022 | 02:17 PM
#539
Widebody
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 778
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From: 777 CAP
I appreciate the idea that we aren’t just voting on section 3. But there’s nothing wrong with having a personal minimum acceptable level of pay despite what else may be in the contract.
For myself that bare minimum has to keep up with inflation. The APC poll I did seemed to favor that. The FOs I have flown with so far have not supported that.
This implies, to me, that a pay cut would be acceptable to these pilots given enough gains in the rest of the contract. Or maybe they just want any raise as soon as possible.
For reference, the pay raise we would need today is around 13% to break even on spending power from 2019 rates.
Plug in your current pay rate here to see what that would be:
https://www.usinflationcalculator.com
For myself that bare minimum has to keep up with inflation. The APC poll I did seemed to favor that. The FOs I have flown with so far have not supported that.
This implies, to me, that a pay cut would be acceptable to these pilots given enough gains in the rest of the contract. Or maybe they just want any raise as soon as possible.
For reference, the pay raise we would need today is around 13% to break even on spending power from 2019 rates.
Plug in your current pay rate here to see what that would be:
https://www.usinflationcalculator.com
05-24-2022 | 03:04 PM
#540
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,453
Likes: 16
https://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc...1&year2=202204
Inflation calculator. 1 dollar in January 2020 is now 1.12.
Assuming free medical,better retirement, sick bank, pay per day for training/vacation, etc and if we get 5% dos plus 5% on January 1st 2023 and if we get an additional 5% for the LOA (no idea if we will get this) then we are keeping pace with inflation in Section 3 and are ahead and other areas.
Inflation calculator. 1 dollar in January 2020 is now 1.12.
Assuming free medical,better retirement, sick bank, pay per day for training/vacation, etc and if we get 5% dos plus 5% on January 1st 2023 and if we get an additional 5% for the LOA (no idea if we will get this) then we are keeping pace with inflation in Section 3 and are ahead and other areas.
I’m in agreement that pilots tend to view contracts pretty myopically in terms of pay rates, but inflation has been brutal the past couple of years, so this time around it actually does matter a lot.
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