Union controls the seniority list, not mgmt. Mgmt says who does and doesn’t work here.

Have to see the final language but just because it “allows” anyone over 65 to come back, doesn’t mean the company has to take them. It would take longer for a retiree to settle a lawsuit for not being allowed back then they’d actually gain returning. It would be a total fuster cluck if suddenly 1000 pilots who’ve left in the last two years were suddenly shoved back in to the top of the list.

 

Not to mention bogging down TK to requal a bunch of guys they’ll have to replace in a matter of months. I’m sure they’d rather use the sims young blood. 65->67 is just an idiot “solution” to the pilot shortage.

 

The retro part of it is unprecedented and the absolutely worst part of this bad idea. I have no idea how company and union would do that if they all came back at old seniority. TK would be a complete mess for a number of years.

Also, is this really an age 68 rule? Can continue for 1 day short of 68, so more like 3 year extension?

 

I think it’s time to resurrect the “name”.




Herpes, no matter what you do, you can’t get rid of them.

 

No. The language in the HR is very clearly modifies the current law by literally changing "65" to "67". Google the HR on the house website. Not an easy read but if you pull the threads it's crystal clear.

 

No there's not.

What's different this time is that in 2007 if you aged out the day before the law took effect you could not return to 121.

The current HR language specifies that you CAN return to 121 flying, if you're under 67. But it in no way states that airlines have to restore seniority, longevity, position so airlines will not take them back if for no other reason than the union would unload both barrels on the company. I'm 90% sure the union does not have a DFR to retirees, unless it has to do with retirement benefits.

Maybe Skywest will take them back... they need them and have no union to complain about it.


If the language stands as-is, I'm sure some golden oldies will sue to be re-instated and I'm also pretty sure they'll lose. But that won't affect your seniority... by the time it makes it way through the courts, they'll be 67 anyway. It will just be a judicial fishing expedition to squeeze some $ out of the company. They did the same thing last time and lost.

 

Which is why it's the airline companies that should be fighting this provision. Not the union. If 67 goes through, I wouldn't categorize lobbying out retro as a win, or a negotiated compromise, for ALPA. That'd be a win for the companies. On ALPA's lobbying dime.

 

If the HR language doesn't specifically state that airlines don't have to take recently retired pilots back, I'm pretty sure their ability to return would be governed by our contract. I'll read the retirement section of the UPA again, but I didn't see any language in our contract that would prevent those pilots from coming back. Section 6-D doesn't specifically address an increase in the retirement age.

If I'm ALPA, I'd continue to fight the age raise, but would not fight the retro. Let the company figure it out. Or they can come back to the table to negotiate for language that would help them with the debacle. Or they can just pay those recently retired pilots guarantee to stay at home until their 67th birthday if they're far out of currency.

 

here is how I see this playing out. since our UPA doesn’t have provisions for what happens after retirement and associated seniority retention then they’ll be treated as a new hire. So in a nutshell when law is passed and signed into law then those still on property (not over 65 on the date of signing by POTUS) will be allowed to stay in same seat/domicile/seniority as if nothing happened. However, Those already officially retired (at 65) and below age of 67 will be offered by their companies to return as a new hire but stapled to bottom of the active pilots. Caveat that union and company could sign an agreement to add verbiage for those 65-67 but would probably require member ratification.

i Think ICAO will lag FAA by a year… that seems to be the norm.

 

Slot them in at the bottom. I will buy a half winger a beer. 😂😂