Honestly, I expected this...I knew it would get bad before it would get better. While life does suck here now, the reason I'm trying to get out is that I'm convinced (as are a lot of guys here) that when we finally get a contract it's not going to fix the issues. The operation and maintenance are in shambles. I know no airline is perfect, but show me another airline that takes its operation seriously that has the MX issues we do at the rate we do. It's amazing to many of us that FAA has let this go on, while we may not technically break any regs, at what point is enough enough?? I'd probably be willing to stay and fight for this contract if I wasn't worried about what's gonna fail on the 80 today. So for me at least, it's the maintenance (or lack there of) and an embarrassment of an operation that has me trying so hard to punch out. And no contract, no matter how good, is going to fix that. Just new management and a new mindset from the top down. And sadly I just don't see that happening here.

 

Everyone has to make the best choice for themselves and their family... however, at the risk of sounding koolaid, I think some of the doom and gloom is overblown.

1. Eventually there will be a new contract. It may not be the Delta contract, but it will be an improvement in pay and time off

2. The MD80s will eventually be gone. Probably sooner than later once the A320NEOs start hitting the street and airlines trade up

3. The company prints money, and the potential markets where the business model works is huge

4. Home every night, sleeping in your own bed, eating your own food, in the same time zone, and seeing you family is hard to quantify in value, but for a lot of people it's priceless

5. Most people bailing from G4 are going to AA or WN. The same thing happens at Jetblue and Spirit

6. MX is still better than almost any regional airline, especially the ones who use contract mx. An issue is the JT8D can't be treated like a CRJ or ERJ engine. And the expense of maintaining them in the way it would take to improve things is counterbalanced by their relatively short remaining life

Just a few things off the top of my head... For people thinking of applying at G4 and live in Florida or Vegas especially, don't be taken in by all the negativity.

 

What does "W T F" mean? Lol. Seriously, calm down sport, you're going to blow an artery.

Yes, to answer your question, I fully expected the relationship to go the way it has gone. Its normal and no, it's not my first rodeo. It was going that way long before we brought in a Union, which is why we elected one in the first place.

What I did not expect was the perpetual chaotic deterioration of the company and rotating senior management that puts us in the news every day. This latest termination involved a guy that was hired to get the contract done and the operation back on track. Now what? Another 6-8 months for another one, also to quit or be fired after a year by MG? Did Alaska vacate the top 2 operations positions in a span of 2 weeks?

A contract is not going to fix this mess. It will take the removal of the one common denominator that perpetuates the 'different' way this travel company is run.

I am moving on as are many others who've had enough and see the writing on the wall. You seem to think things are going swimmingly and all this is normal. Not sure about your background, but if you think what is happening here is healthy or normal, perhaps you should apply for management, you will fit in well (if you're not already there).

JB guys coming here? I heard a bunch of Delta and United guys were trying too.😉

Try not to be so defensive, take a deep breath and step away from the Kool-Aid.

 

1. Yes, there will be a contract eventually. Having the company actually FOLLOW what's in the contract is the issue. Just look at the work rules that both sides agreed to and see how much they are worth. Yes, a contract will have a grievance process that the work rules do not, but do you think they will really care about violating the work rules?

2. Look at the 320's they are buying now, they are all pretty old. How much life is left in them? 5 years, maybe a little more? Then what happens? During the time I was on the Bus, maintenance wasn't as bad as the 80, but it was starting to go downhilll when I left.

3. Yes, the are making money, but where does it all go? Not to the operation, that's for sure. To me, that is an unsustainable business model.

4. Most people are home every night, except people in the TDY base, those that break down, those in the bases with multi day trips, and anyone crazy enough to commute.

5. When I left, people were going everywhere. Don't know what's going on now.

6. I disagree. When I worked for Eagle, maintenance was pretty good. It was a lot better than while I was at Allegiant. You are right that a JT8D isn't like an engine on an ERJ or CRJ. Those engines probably get more maintenance and more time spent on them. I would argue the amount of money saved by not doing proper maintenance because of the short engine life is offset by either the const of having to change it, or the cost of continued bad press.

7. You didn't have this, but let me add something more. I will make more as a second year FO at my legacy airline than I was making as a 9th year captain at Allegiant. I also have normal health insurance, and a 16% company funded retirement. I'm also getting a lot more time off, and the best part is that time off is actually days in a row, rather than Tuesday, Wednesday, and Saturday.

 

You're right, people have to make the best choices for them and their families. In order to do so, they have to have the information to make good decisions. Below are some areas where we appear to disagree. Buyer beware

1. Eventually there will be a new contract? Really? I'm beginning to wonder, given the behavior of the NMB and the ability of management to have their way with them. If and when the new contract is signed it may be so watered-down it could be considered concessionary by most standards. The growth and rotating group of pilots works in management's favor. Although much is growth related, 60% of this pilot group wasn't even here three years ago when we elected the Teamsters. Once the contract is signed, management will have to abide by it. Good luck with that

2. MD 80s will be gone? Right now the Airbus are being acquired for growth. Current estimates place the MD-80 on the property until 2020. Hopefully we will not have a major incident between now and then. We can only get lucky for so long, 80+ engine failures so far. Not that the Airbus is the panacea. Allegiant proved it could not maintain the venerable 757's and is now doing the same with the junked out old airbus's G4 is currently purchasing.

3. Company printing money does no good if that money does not get reinvested into the operation and the employees

4. Home every night is not something many of our pilots are able to enjoy. Tell that to the guys that are TDY or others who don't have more than one day off at a time for two straight months.

5. And others are bailing to JetBlue and spirit.

6. Most regionals have far better maintenance than we do AND they have much newer, more reliable equipment. As far as the cost of doing maintenance on JT-8, that is not an option. You either maintain them to an acceptable standard of reliability and safety, or you park them. If I didn't know any better, I'd think you were accepting an eroded safety margin to save money.

Differing perspectives depending on the equipment you fly in the time you have been here among other things. Do plenty of research before deciding to come to Allegiant. As 9 easy said, if it works for you, great.

 

Hey Tyler, that's pretty funny. We said almost the exact same things at the exact same time.

Were you looking over my sholder???

 

Right behind ya😜

 

Yes, I stand by what I said. You cannot compare JetBlue to Allegiant as being equal or similar. What a joke! And unlike you, I speak from having experienced both first hand.

If it is true (and that is a big IF) that there are a few people who actually have left JB for Allegiant, then it is only because they believe "it can't possibly be that bad!" and live in Florida and believe the "home every night" line. As for "plenty" disagreeing with me about Allegiant...again, it is only because they don't know how bad it is there, and may be disgruntled here for other reasons.

Unlike Allegiant, we here at JetBlue have REAL maintenance. Our company SPENDS money, much more than the bare minimum, on our maintenance and aircraft. Speaking personally, the atrocious maintenance practices which I saw first hand, were the primary factor in my looking to leave.

Training. I've been through MD80 "training" at Allegiant. Talk about a joke. I'm surprised that the FAA let you guys restart after it was SHUT DOWN.

And none of this even broaches the compensation and QOL issues. Yeah, no comparison there either.

You can spin it however you want. I hope for the sake of guys there that it does get better. But you seem to be living the life of a Maury Gallagher apologist. I feel sorry for you.

 

I find it humorous that you call me a kool aid drinker. I have no idea your relative seniority nor do you know mine. I've been here a while and our revolving management and constantly breaking down airplanes is nothing new to me, so why it's new to you I don't know.

Yes, we've had a couple Jetblue pilots come here.

I'm sorry that logic and reality gets in the way of your delusional thinking. Maybe you need to take a step back and reevaluate.

Good luck with the interviews. By the sounds of this thread, the Cp is going to make up a story about you to keep you from getting hired or you'll get a violation or two before your paperwork is processed.

 

I find it equally humorous that you deny being a kool aid drinker and welcome anyone reading this post to take a glance through your previous posts and determine for themselves. As with this response, your angry tone and defensiveness are consistent throughout, as is the frequency by which you attempt to censor people and claim legal reprisals for ideas and opinions.

Best of luck to you too, and please seek help for the anger, it's not healthy