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Old 01-06-2013 | 12:38 PM
  #201  
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Originally Posted by flyfast15
I'm sure most of them have descent jobs by now.
Freudian slip?
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Old 01-06-2013 | 01:18 PM
  #202  
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Originally Posted by cactiboss
every west pilot loses relative position under the Nicolau award.
Why do you lie? Over and over I have told you this, its a fact but you keep spreading B.S.!

If we flipped the switch on Nic today your beloved leader E.F. would jump from around 88% relative position on the entire west list, furloughed included, to about 76% on the combined list. The windfall gets bigger every year. He's a junior F/O that could jump to 737, A320, E190 captain or 767, A330 F/O. Windfall.

There will not be stalemate forever. Eventually we will get a legal answer and move on.
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Old 01-06-2013 | 01:19 PM
  #203  
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Originally Posted by cactiboss
Important to note stagnation on west side but no contract improvements eas either.
Yep. That is the price for the decisions we've made.
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Old 01-06-2013 | 01:25 PM
  #204  
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Originally Posted by R57 relay
Why do you lie? Over and over I have told you this, its a fact but you keep spreading B.S.!

If we flipped the switch on Nic today your beloved leader E.F. would jump from around 88% relative position on the entire west list, furloughed included, to about 76% on the combined list. The windfall gets bigger every year. He's a junior F/O that could jump to 737, A320, E190 captain or 767, A330 F/O. Windfall.

There will not be stalemate forever. Eventually we will get a legal answer and move on.
you are the liar. Lets see, you use Eric's position after we shrunk from 1800 to 1300 pilots. You east guys are simply amazing, the merger happen in 2005 and those are the positions Nicolau used. The east forced the west to downgrade and furlough in 2008 and you use this as proof nic. Got it wrong and the west got a windfall. Just ridiculous. Lets see, I was a 757 captain when we merged and got downgraded in 2008, you think that your stealing my job should count against me? I hope you walk into arbitration and use that.
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Old 01-06-2013 | 02:02 PM
  #205  
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Originally Posted by cactiboss
you are the liar. Lets see, you use Eric's position after we shrunk from 1800 to 1300 pilots. You east guys are simply amazing, the merger happen in 2005 and those are the positions Nicolau used. The east forced the west to downgrade and furlough in 2008 and you use this as proof nic. Got it wrong and the west got a windfall. Just ridiculous. Lets see, I was a 757 captain when we merged and got downgraded in 2008, you think that your stealing my job should count against me? I hope you walk into arbitration and use that.
Liar or stupid? I can't figure you out.

First of all, Nicolau didn't use the 2005 list. He used the 2007 list that, in his words, more reflected the realities of the merged airline. But he held several hundred pilots that had already returned from furlough to THEIR 2005 position-furloughed. At the most EF had about 250 west pilots junior to him, but he got about 600 active east pilots put below him, and the entire furloughed list that either returned or resigned shortly thereafter. What did that do to his relative position? The undeniable fact is that west pilots junior to about the 35% point on the west list would get a bump in relative position on the Nic and it keeps getting bigger as the years go on. Have you actually read the Nicolau award? From your posts it appears that you haven't. It's available on cactuspilot.com if you would like to really educate yourself.

Nobody stole your job!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! There are no east pilots flying west equipment. Separate ops, again! You've been told why you lost your seat. You decided that you wouldn't give an inch on the Nic, we decided we wouldn't either.

Last edited by R57 relay; 01-06-2013 at 02:21 PM.
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Old 01-06-2013 | 02:27 PM
  #206  
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Originally Posted by R57 relay
Liar or stupid? I can't figure you out.

First of all, Nicolau didn't use the 2005 list. He used the 2007 list that, in his words, more reflected the realities of the merged airline. But he held several hundred pilots that had already returned from furlough to THEIR 2005 position-furloughed. At the most EF had about 250 west pilots junior to him, but he got about 600 active east pilots put below him, and the entire furloughed list that either returned or resigned shortly thereafter. What did that do to his relative position? The undeniable fact is that west pilots junior to about the 35% point on the west list would get a bump in relative position on the Nic and it keeps getting bigger as the years go on. Have you actually read the Nicolau award? From your posts it appears that you haven't. It's available on cactuspilot.com if you would like to really educate yourself.


Nobody stole your job!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! There are no east pilots flying west equipment. Separate ops, again! You've been told why you lost your seat. You decided that you wouldn't give an inch on the Nic, we decided we wouldn't either.
You are amazing. How many pilots did you have on furlough when we merged in 2005? How many did the west have?. You did steal my job, you made sure there would be no contract under alpa and then stole my representation. Those are facts my friend.

PS. Usapa s union drive layed out the plan for everyone to see. Prevent an alpa contract, kick out alpa to take away west representation and voila, an industry standard doh contract in 90 days.

PSS nice video of you founder laying it out

awapilot x usapa part3 - YouTube

Last edited by cactiboss; 01-06-2013 at 02:59 PM.
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Old 01-06-2013 | 03:21 PM
  #207  
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From: A320 Capt
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Originally Posted by cactiboss
You are amazing. How many pilots did you have on furlough when we merged in 2005? How many did the west have?. You did steal my job, you made sure there would be no contract under alpa and then stole my representation. Those are facts my friend.

PS. Usapa s union drive layed out the plan for everyone to see. Prevent an alpa contract, kick out alpa to take away west representation and voila, an industry standard doh contract in 90 days.

PSS nice video of you founder laying it out

awapilot x usapa part3 - YouTube
We'll go with stupid.

Go back and read the Stephan transcript that you pulled one sentence out of. He says there was no timeline to complete a joint contract. It's us the way it is. Everybody told you the risks about not budging, but you guys held your line. Fine, that was your right. But now you whine about the east doing the same. USAPA or no USAPA we did not have to agree to a joint contract and that action alone keeps us apart.
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Old 01-06-2013 | 03:30 PM
  #208  
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Originally Posted by Bill Lumberg
Subject: Notes from APA Meeting

Name stays AA
HQ in DFW
US comes to Oneworld (hurts UAL)
Pay banding
Starting point is current green book.
5.5% raise on date of signing
3% / yrs 2-6, then avg of UAL/DAL
A319 no longer a sep payband
Vac goes to 3+40/day. Better accrual
Hard freeze & 14% DC Plan
PBS. US West pilots love it. Well managed. Lines 83. P/u to 90. Keep current rigs.
Scope committee is "giddy" with what is offered. Parker doesn't understand code share. He wants the revenue. Max Dom code share = 4% of total asm's.
Keeping AA's Boeing/Bus order. Very excited to get 787.
Unsure about AE. Parker wants to see books then decide. Hates 50 seaters. Prob convert most 319 orders to 320/321's.
Med costs will go from 14% to 17% (I think 1113 had it going to 26%.
Not a sure thing, but APA seems quite confident. No timeline given, more than 2 mos, possibly by end of summer. Horton is said to be steaming mad.
Seniority may go to expedited arbitration. Expect percentile in type over any DOH (aka DAL/NWA)
US East guys will get about 25-30% raise out of this.
I wonder if this would include "BINDING ARBITRATION"....and what would happen when someone doesn't like the outcome.
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Old 01-06-2013 | 03:48 PM
  #209  
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Originally Posted by Seaslap8
I wonder if this would include "BINDING ARBITRATION"....and what would happen when someone doesn't like the outcome.
I assume binding arbitration is the only way apa can protect itself from any litigation.
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Old 01-06-2013 | 03:55 PM
  #210  
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Originally Posted by cactiboss
I assume binding arbitration is the only way apa can protect itself from any litigation.
You're a scab. Go away.
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