Originally Posted by Whaledriver

Sorry, this is incorrect. A NH in Jan 2013 will begin accruing profit sharing on Jan 31, 2014, which is paid in 2015, off the eleven eligible months of 2014.

Originally Posted by Whaledriver

You're not listening. In a couple years, long before we get the new contract, seat locks won't matter, natural flow thru will take more than three years. It will take more than three years to be senior enough to move from the junior 767/757 to the 747. Why spend leverage on something that will fix itself?

Originally Posted by SVA402

If that's true then it will take no leverage, as it will cost the company nothing.

Originally Posted by Elusive Napkin

I stand corrected. I misread "The Plan". I thought I read something about having to complete a full calendar year before becoming eligible. After reading it again, I see that it states you are eligible in the first month following your 1 year anniversary. Thanks for the info and correction.

Dodgy Paper Towl

Originally Posted by Whaledriver

Sorry, I'm missing something. What solution are you proposing that costs the company nothing? To be honest, I have heard no solutions, just complaints.

Originally Posted by NightIP

Nah, I get it. Hammer on the new guys, protect the interests of the senior guys. That's tradition in the airlines.

But, let's talk about where I came up with the "tens of thousands" figure, and why I might think it's unfair that myself and a good number of 767 pilots are making less than ~120-200 pilots junior to us.

1st year pay (767 and 747): $78/hr
2nd year pay (747): $98/hr
2nd year pay (767): $82/hr
3rd year pay (747): $103/hr
3rd year pay (767): $86/hr

For our calculations, let's just use an average credit per month of 72 hours for both 767 and 747 pilots.

1st year: ($78 * 72 * 12) = $67,392
2nd year (747): ($98 * 72 * 12) = $84,672
2nd year (767): ($82 * 72 * 12) = $70,848
3rd year (747): ($103 * 72 * 12) = $88,992
3rd year (767): ($86 * 72 * 12) = $74,304

All totaled up:

Years 1-3 (747): $241,056
Years 1-3 (767): $212,544

For those keeping score at home, the difference between the two? $28,512! Literally tens of thousands, not including the potential for hazardous duty pay on the 747 side of the house!

Now, I don't know about you, but I bet you'd feel pretty raw about involuntarily making almost $30,000 less over the course of three years than pilots junior to you. I bet you'd also feel pretty raw if pilots junior to you were holding a base drivable from your house while you're locked into a transcon commute to CVG. Am I wrong, or is this just a blow-off issue because it doesn't affect the senior pilots? Seniority is broken down here at the lower ranks; this is something we should all care about!

Also, the 3 year lock makes good business sense? It makes good business sense to cut our pay in half too, right? The industry standard equipment lock is 1 year for new-hires and transitions. We are way behind.

And yes, many of us did have 50 hour months our first year. Hell, I was even told by one of our stewards that I should feel lucky to have my whole schedule dropped to R1 right after getting off training pay.

Profit sharing? We all know it's a joke, but my class and I won't get a full year's profit sharing check until 2016, even though we were hired in 2013. A year without profit sharing? More like 2-3.

These are issues that need to be addressed in the next CBA, not brushed aside because they don't affect the senior pilots. If we want industry standard, we need an EXCO that will push for it.

Originally Posted by Whaledriver

Ok, so I don't get it, but you have all the answers. So, you're ExCo for a day and the company wants to know what they have to do to improve retention, without breaking the bank and opening any section of the contract....What say you?

Originally Posted by AirCorpsDrew

Hello all,
I'm new to the forum, but I am VERY interested in Atlas because we are trying to move to Germany (wife is a Lufthansa flight attendant, and commuting to FRA from DFW is bumming her out…) and this type of schedule would fit us like a glove. My big questions are, is the Stansted base still around or long gone? And, what are the typical quals of guys who are getting hired right now from the civvy world? I'm a left seat Eagle CRJ guy who is looking for a seat in a lifeboat before this ship goes down! Plus, like I said, Atlas would be perfect.

Thanks for any advice and help!

Originally Posted by SVA402

What I'm trying to say, is that if your statement that this seatlock issue will fix itself due to natural flow is accurate, what would it cost the company anything to make it shorter in the contract? And back to the original idea, even if it does cost the company money, it's a big deal and something we should fight for. You never know what will happen in the future, what airplanes we might add or how we might grow or stagnate. That's the whole purpose of the contract, these things can't be left to chance.