Retro Pay Resolution
10-26-2022 | 07:49 AM
#131
New Hire
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 798
Likes: 3
From: Concourse A
Yes, retro is emotional. By my numbers on my earnings I’m due close to 100k.
Just raising the question here, before I get trampled on. Do we expect the company to pay out 1.5B in retro on top of contract by all estimates will be 2B or so? I think we need to get realistic here. Yes, retro holds the company accountable for dragging this out, but if folks think they are all going to be getting 100-150k checks plus rates from mid 20s/30% (on top of contractual gains) are going to be very disappointed.
In light of the impending economic environment that could get ugly fast , turning down a solid win contract over retro will cost us in the long run. Saying it here now on record. At some point time value money ( can’t believe I’m saying a Moak term) does come into effect.
We need to see the whole contract holistically and see how much the bonus/retro ends up being under that lens.
Just raising the question here, before I get trampled on. Do we expect the company to pay out 1.5B in retro on top of contract by all estimates will be 2B or so? I think we need to get realistic here. Yes, retro holds the company accountable for dragging this out, but if folks think they are all going to be getting 100-150k checks plus rates from mid 20s/30% (on top of contractual gains) are going to be very disappointed.
In light of the impending economic environment that could get ugly fast , turning down a solid win contract over retro will cost us in the long run. Saying it here now on record. At some point time value money ( can’t believe I’m saying a Moak term) does come into effect.
We need to see the whole contract holistically and see how much the bonus/retro ends up being under that lens.
10-26-2022 | 08:02 AM
#132
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 4,095
Likes: 458
Yes, retro is emotional. By my numbers on my earnings I’m due close to 100k.
Just raising the question here, before I get trampled on. Do we expect the company to pay out 1.5B in retro on top of contract by all estimates will be 2B or so? I think we need to get realistic here. Yes, retro holds the company accountable for dragging this out, but if folks think they are all going to be getting 100-150k checks plus rates from mid 20s/30% (on top of contractual gains) are going to be very disappointed.
In light of the impending economic environment that could get ugly fast , turning down a solid win contract over retro will cost us in the long run. Saying it here now on record. At some point time value money ( can’t believe I’m saying a Moak term) does come into effect.
We need to see the whole contract holistically and see how much the bonus/retro ends up being under that lens.
Just raising the question here, before I get trampled on. Do we expect the company to pay out 1.5B in retro on top of contract by all estimates will be 2B or so? I think we need to get realistic here. Yes, retro holds the company accountable for dragging this out, but if folks think they are all going to be getting 100-150k checks plus rates from mid 20s/30% (on top of contractual gains) are going to be very disappointed.
In light of the impending economic environment that could get ugly fast , turning down a solid win contract over retro will cost us in the long run. Saying it here now on record. At some point time value money ( can’t believe I’m saying a Moak term) does come into effect.
We need to see the whole contract holistically and see how much the bonus/retro ends up being under that lens.
10-26-2022 | 08:03 AM
#133
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,206
Likes: 0
From: DAL FO
Yes, retro is emotional. By my numbers on my earnings I’m due close to 100k.
Just raising the question here, before I get trampled on. Do we expect the company to pay out 1.5B in retro on top of contract by all estimates will be 2B or so? I think we need to get realistic here. Yes, retro holds the company accountable for dragging this out, but if folks think they are all going to be getting 100-150k checks plus rates from mid 20s/30% (on top of contractual gains) are going to be very disappointed.
In light of the impending economic environment that could get ugly fast , turning down a solid win contract over retro will cost us in the long run. Saying it here now on record. At some point time value money ( can’t believe I’m saying a Moak term) does come into effect.
We need to see the whole contract holistically and see how much the bonus/retro ends up being under that lens.
Just raising the question here, before I get trampled on. Do we expect the company to pay out 1.5B in retro on top of contract by all estimates will be 2B or so? I think we need to get realistic here. Yes, retro holds the company accountable for dragging this out, but if folks think they are all going to be getting 100-150k checks plus rates from mid 20s/30% (on top of contractual gains) are going to be very disappointed.
In light of the impending economic environment that could get ugly fast , turning down a solid win contract over retro will cost us in the long run. Saying it here now on record. At some point time value money ( can’t believe I’m saying a Moak term) does come into effect.
We need to see the whole contract holistically and see how much the bonus/retro ends up being under that lens.
FWIW I agree with your take 100%.
Schwanz measuring feels good but doesn’t put money in our pockets. TVM is real. It’s not a bad word. Some retro will probably happen. Dying on the altar of 100% back pay to pre COVID isn’t smart because it is easily held up by mgmt to the mediator as “unreasonable” (whether we FEEL that way or not).
Something each of us should evaluate quietly to ourselves, without posturing on social media. If the NC can achieve x% of our 4 pillar goals I would be willing to accept y less than 100% full back pay retro. Solve for your own personal x and y.
In the real world x will be less than 100% since the company also has to sign on any deal. Acknowledging that reality doesn’t make you a Moakie.
Eventually we will get a deal. And everyone will be pi$$ed that it wasn’t the perfect deal. And the world will keep spinning.
10-26-2022 | 08:05 AM
#134
Line Holder
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,383
Likes: 121
We got retro on C15(C2016). There is no reason we shouldn't this time around, however, I do believe since the company and union both agreed to stop negotiations during Covid-19, then that 12-18 month period when we jointly agreed to suspend negotiation should not be included if push comes to shove. But all periods of time post contract amendable date that were not paused, we should get retro.
10-26-2022 | 08:11 AM
#135
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 5,575
Likes: 316
Commuting to work? That’s an easy one. Call the DP and tell him you can’t get to work on your RESERVED JS as the captain refuses to let you on. Let them fight it out and enjoy the show.
To get back to the original subject of retro pay in 2019 the company was making RECORD profits as evidenced by the 2020 PS check. If a contract had been completed in a timely manner what % raise would we have seen? 12% maybe? Let’s say 10% on 1/1/20 to be conservative. With the “pandemic” hitting us hard in 2020 I’ll accept no additional raise on 1/1/21. By the end of ‘21 things were looking a lot better and we had all stepped to to the plate and worked while much of America cowered while “sheltering in place”, so I’ll add another 6% for this year.
So 10% for 2020 and 2021 with another 6% for 2022. For a pilot making $200k/yr that’s be an additional $20k for 2020 and 2021 and $33.2k for 2022 for a total retro payout of $73,200 assuming an effective date on the new contract of 1/1/23.
Of course I’d want to see a 1/1/23 raise as well, but for the sake of brevity thats a subject for another thread.
Anyway this is the MINIMUM amount I have to see for “retro”, “signing bonus” or whatever the heck else they want to call it. JMO, but I’m running the numbers now so I can make an educated decision when the time comes to check a box.
To get back to the original subject of retro pay in 2019 the company was making RECORD profits as evidenced by the 2020 PS check. If a contract had been completed in a timely manner what % raise would we have seen? 12% maybe? Let’s say 10% on 1/1/20 to be conservative. With the “pandemic” hitting us hard in 2020 I’ll accept no additional raise on 1/1/21. By the end of ‘21 things were looking a lot better and we had all stepped to to the plate and worked while much of America cowered while “sheltering in place”, so I’ll add another 6% for this year.
So 10% for 2020 and 2021 with another 6% for 2022. For a pilot making $200k/yr that’s be an additional $20k for 2020 and 2021 and $33.2k for 2022 for a total retro payout of $73,200 assuming an effective date on the new contract of 1/1/23.
Of course I’d want to see a 1/1/23 raise as well, but for the sake of brevity thats a subject for another thread.
Anyway this is the MINIMUM amount I have to see for “retro”, “signing bonus” or whatever the heck else they want to call it. JMO, but I’m running the numbers now so I can make an educated decision when the time comes to check a box.
10-26-2022 | 08:35 AM
#136
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 1,021
Likes: 0
I won’t be unhappy. I fully expect to be brought an AIP that falls well short or we just get parked. Either way it is part of the process. Drawing this out will get worse and worse for Delta.
10-26-2022 | 08:45 AM
#137
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 168
Likes: 0
I agree with you. I’m a no vote to anything less. Based on the other airlines TA’s, I have come to realize that what we are expecting and deserve is not going to happen. The United and American TA’s have cut our legs out from under us. That won’t stop me from voting no though. I’m willing to strike.
10-26-2022 | 09:02 AM
#138
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 5,529
Likes: 495
Yes, retro is emotional. By my numbers on my earnings I’m due close to 100k.
Just raising the question here, before I get trampled on. Do we expect the company to pay out 1.5B in retro on top of contract by all estimates will be 2B or so? I think we need to get realistic here. Yes, retro holds the company accountable for dragging this out, but if folks think they are all going to be getting 100-150k checks plus rates from mid 20s/30% (on top of contractual gains) are going to be very disappointed.
In light of the impending economic environment that could get ugly fast , turning down a solid win contract over retro will cost us in the long run. Saying it here now on record. At some point time value money ( can’t believe I’m saying a Moak term) does come into effect.
We need to see the whole contract holistically and see how much the bonus/retro ends up being under that lens.
Just raising the question here, before I get trampled on. Do we expect the company to pay out 1.5B in retro on top of contract by all estimates will be 2B or so? I think we need to get realistic here. Yes, retro holds the company accountable for dragging this out, but if folks think they are all going to be getting 100-150k checks plus rates from mid 20s/30% (on top of contractual gains) are going to be very disappointed.
In light of the impending economic environment that could get ugly fast , turning down a solid win contract over retro will cost us in the long run. Saying it here now on record. At some point time value money ( can’t believe I’m saying a Moak term) does come into effect.
We need to see the whole contract holistically and see how much the bonus/retro ends up being under that lens.
Don't pay rent = Eviction
Don't make car payment = Repossession
Don't pay back wages = We ask to withhold services
Full retro based on inflationary raises in 2020, 2021, 2022 is cost neutral on wages and concessionary on QOL. You never recover lost QOL. Even with a full retro payout, the company has benefitted greatly from stalling. Payment of 2023 rates for labor in 2020-2022 would be a bit of a stretch.
10-26-2022 | 09:31 AM
#139
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 20,869
Likes: 187
I agree with you. I’m a no vote to anything less. Based on the other airlines TA’s, I have come to realize that what we are expecting and deserve is not going to happen. The United and American TA’s have cut our legs out from under us. That won’t stop me from voting no though. I’m willing to strike.
10-26-2022 | 09:47 AM
#140
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 13,223
Likes: 670
From: ir.delta.com
Yes, retro is emotional. By my numbers on my earnings I’m due close to 100k.
Just raising the question here, before I get trampled on. Do we expect the company to pay out 1.5B in retro on top of contract by all estimates will be 2B or so? I think we need to get realistic here. Yes, retro holds the company accountable for dragging this out, but if folks think they are all going to be getting 100-150k checks plus rates from mid 20s/30% (on top of contractual gains) are going to be very disappointed.
In light of the impending economic environment that could get ugly fast , turning down a solid win contract over retro will cost us in the long run. Saying it here now on record. At some point time value money ( can’t believe I’m saying a Moak term) does come into effect.
We need to see the whole contract holistically and see how much the bonus/retro ends up being under that lens.
Just raising the question here, before I get trampled on. Do we expect the company to pay out 1.5B in retro on top of contract by all estimates will be 2B or so? I think we need to get realistic here. Yes, retro holds the company accountable for dragging this out, but if folks think they are all going to be getting 100-150k checks plus rates from mid 20s/30% (on top of contractual gains) are going to be very disappointed.
In light of the impending economic environment that could get ugly fast , turning down a solid win contract over retro will cost us in the long run. Saying it here now on record. At some point time value money ( can’t believe I’m saying a Moak term) does come into effect.
We need to see the whole contract holistically and see how much the bonus/retro ends up being under that lens.
Last edited by notEnuf; 10-26-2022 at 10:01 AM.
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