Thanks, Ten.

I'll work on toning it down a bit. I apologize for my heavy-handed sarcasm, it doesn't translate well in print.

I do like it here, like the guys I fly with, and I'd rather be here than anywhere else. Despite my bombastic posts, I am not that way on the flight deck. Just your average crew dog trying to do my part to help us get more money, more time off, and a couple of craft beers.

Ike Bub, I 'mag'n...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GyZXnpO8Jew

And the Yankees still Suck!

plus one.......

Might not be a bad trade... but of course you ARE doing due diligence, right?

Good post dalad. I mostly agree.
Our company suffered horribly under the incompetence of Allen, Mullin and Grinstein. That wasn't ALPA's fault. We are just now starting to recover and hopefully it will last.

On the union side I also agree that the donut group is not the answer. They started out well but have since entered an unrecoverable spin. Having said that, I have a few serious problems with the way our "association" is run.
In no particular order --
1) I think Moak's constructive engagement is way too one-sided. We cooperate and play nice and management doesn't give much in return. ALPA needs to take a stand at least once in awhile. DALPA has become Anderson's poodle.
2) ALPA's obvious support for outsourcing while simultaneously proclaiming the importance of strong scope justs drives me nuts. Bucking Bar is always talking about ALPA's actions destroying unity. I think that's true. They do too many things that tend to fragment and divide the pilots of the various airlines instead of bring us together.
3) The "small d" democratic structure of our union gets circumvented too easily by a handful of insiders. I really did not like the way our MEC administration stampeded the reps in this last contract. The usual suspects cut a deal and then rammed it through.
4) To borrow from Ronald Reagan --> The problem is simply stated. ALPA National is too big and it spends too much.
5) That's enough for now. You get the idea.

Hopefully ALPA will reform someday or someone with more credibility than the donut group will come along to replace them. Right now I don't feel like I'm getting my money's worth.

Yup, I was at a meeting for P2P in ATL before the second pay cut and LM stood before us espousing how he had always been a radical etc. He even drew the line in the sand saying no more than 70 seats, well, the rest is history. I went to the MEC meeting in MSY after the LOA was signed and we all kind of walked out stunned that the line was moved. I remember talking to BMac after that, and he agreed that it was a change that would be hard to sell to the troops. It will be interesting to see how the SLI turns out at UAL, because it could be the death knell of ALPA National if those guys burn the union house down. I will say this, I respect the guys that work on our behalf and am glad that someone else does it.

Hey johnso29. Unfortunately the day I need doesn't have adequate coverage. That's good advice though, thanks.

Yeahbut...

Here's my take on DALPA:

Is the tail wagging the dog, or is the Dog asleep and the tail is trying to wake it up?

Back in the day...when we had a bunch of small bases and few commuters, I went to many, many, many LEC meetings in BOS, as I lived 45 miles north. Many of us B scale 727 Engineers would car pool and drive in together, and we'd listen and talk, and put up resolutions, etc. and we were all in touch with our Reps, and this was BEFORE the Internet and Cell Phones! Yeah! We actually had to call each other on a land line or go to a meeting to find out what the Fark was going on....

AND WE DID!

AND we finally got rid of the B scale!

How?

We showed up at meetings and YELLED AND SCREAMED ABOUT IT!! :eek:

Fast fwd 25 years:

All the little bases are closed, over 50% of the pilot group commutes, nobody shows up at LEC meetings in ATL. Nobody. In a base of over 4,500, maybe 30 guys show up! Maybe. And 10 of them are on the LEC or Committee guys.

Well, what is the LEC supposed to think? "Well, I guess if nobody shows up and calls us out on it, they don't care, so it must be OK if we just bend over and take it in the pooper again..."

The internet has made it much too easy to beoch here online, vs. showing up and screaming at your Reps. Believe me, MGT takes a headcount from the meetings. They know how much real angst is out there based on the meeting turnout. Until we start showing up by the hundreds, and yelling and screaming, well, "Proactive Engagement" is what we are going to get.

Now...is Proactive Engagement good enough? Well, we have been FAT on pilots for a couple years now, but we have not furloughed. Is that because RA is smart enough not to kick the hornets nest, and just cary the extra bodies, sitting on reserve, paid 72/mo. to do nothing, just to keep the peace?

I think he is that smart, I think he will cary the extra bodies, because they will vote YES to a 6wk contract that gave us 4, 8.5, 3, 3.

Do you think that would have ever passed if we had 500 guys out on furlough?

But now you see what we just approved; more 'efficiencies' that will put hiring off for another year or more, just as guys are finally turning 65, and we continue to shrink our body count.

RA2 is no idiot, he knows you catch more flys with honey than vinegar. Dalpa can't throw down if we are not showing up at meetings and demanding more.

Internet talk is cheap, and much too easy, but counts for nothing. IF you (we) want to see real change, we have to show up at meeting with torches and pitchforks, just like we did in 1988-90 to fight against the B scale. Until the Troops stop answering the phone, and planes stop moving, well, RA2 doesn't have a problem, and until we show up at meetings and demand more, DALPA has no support or marching orders to go to war.

Wow very nice...and valid for every pilot group out there.

Honest question... have you ever thought the internet isn't being utilized the way it could be for the good of the union? It seems to me there are many ways (beyond email) it could bring real time input and involvement to the core of the operation. Do you feel the technology is not good enough? Or are things run the way they are because those in charge aren't really interested in that level of outside involvement where information/decision making could more easily extend beyond the inner circle? Maybe the powers that be feel they know better than the average line pilot what is best for the group regardless of whether that is true or not?