Sailing,

Sir, you must have forgotten. No biggie ... Google search makes recalling pretty easy ....

Economy has done better than most anticipated and we gave them the relief to purchase more 76 seaters, which they quickly did, along with the purchase of the airline that operates them ...

http://www.nycaviation.com/2012/12/d.../#.UT1P8Bza83M

The only part they did not execute on ... hiring. Were we promised an end to stagnation & displacements if we voted yes ? .. nope. Was hiring inferred by management's statements ... definitely.

This and daldudes posts pretty much sums it up for me.....

Or as any newish Cessna 172 single-engine piston aircraft.....:D

That didn't count. The contract is only 2.5 months old. ;)

They've gotten a new lease on life for now. However to your point, parking the 88s and 9s but adding 717s and allowing the 739 to be 100% replacement for 320s/757s/763s, yeah you could end up with a fleet about the size we are now which means we'd just meet the 1.56 ratio. There wouldn't really be a way for RJs to replace them.

But it doesn't look like that's the plan for the 88, but can I submit another idea for Delta 9000++?

What if you staffed all of the international airplanes with the same number of pilots we do the 330 and the domestic airplanes like we do the 88?

When I look at the 22.D.3 reports it certainly seems as if we're finding ways to reduce staffing per WB and NB.

So let's try this: It's a thought, assuming we don't grow above the number of jets we have now. If we end up netting a growth of 30-40 aircraft then it'd be somewhere slightly below 9400. If they still want to squeeze 400 more out, well, give us a TA to vote on! :D

The 88s are about half way through their life according to a document put out about 3-4 years ago. About 40% of the fleet will be 30 years or older at the end of the decade or 7 years though and they're all close in age. The 90s are younger. I know Bar has a list that's very long on the 88 but take it from me (a fan) the 88s engines are not as efficient, the 90s parts are scarce, the avionics in both are lacking in a lot of ways (namely the 90s don't even have some fixes and common alternate airports). Their fixing the latter. The other two could be crippling but I guess right now they feel the ROI is there and outweighs the risk but man it only took them about 3 years to push that upgrade through.

Where is that list Bar made on how decisions are made around here?

Okay I get confused. One second all of the RJ pilots will be furloughed and on the streets and the next there won't be any to hire.

FTB,
How bout if they want to monkey with the age anymore they do it in a gradual manner, ie over a period of time. Like imagine on this past increase had been phased in over a manner of 10 years like one year extension on age every two years. The shock to the junior pilots would have been much more subdued, granted we would have eventually gotten to the same spot, but there would have been less windfall for a few and the benefit would have spread out more of the group.
Aloha,
LUV

You know, the second they raise the social security retirement age you can build a coalition of old pilots and airline execs, and maybe their union, who will go to congress and demand the age be raised to help mitigate the pilot shortage and in general fairness to pilots who lost their retirements and so forth.

The complainers, junior to age 70 crowd, will be doing so out of greed. And you can just say "you're complaining because you're junior" and "this is what the senior pilots wanted." Works for the bucket and reserve system, I don't see why we can reuse it elsewhere to completely shut down dissent.

Now I'm not going to throw up in my mouth like 80 though, I'll go find the toilet. I still think any age limit increase should not begin until years after it's signed into law. But that's just me, I'm junior. :D

I always thought that too but I guess they wanted it all upfront for either ICAO reasons.

Now the funny thing about increasing the Age 60, you had people approaching 60 demanding it because Age 60 was totally arbitrary (age 65 is not) and it's not fair! Pilots lost their retirements, need time to make it up, etc.

Make it retroactive? silence.

That, sir, is beautiful in its simplicity and resonant in its truth.

Sailing we have already shrunk. We did not replace any of the ER guys and others have been retiring, and none of these guys have been replaced.

In all fairness this was only the first of hopefully many bids on the 717 and so hopefully we will be entering a growth phase, but make no mistake - we have shrunk.

A lot of us were hoping this bid would finally start the movement we have been hearing about and hoping for. Yes, it was a step in the right direction, but it was a baby step at best. So even though many of have been looking forward to this bid for months, if not longer, and even though it is marginally positive - many, many individuals will be negatively impacted on this bid.

FWIW - I don't really blame the new contract for this but chalk it up to the final synergies of the merger along with pull-downs in capacity. Whatever the reason it is a bummer.

Scoop