Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?
I think you need to adjust your resolution.
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: Permanently scarred
Posts: 1,707
Tried to PM it to you, but you're over your limit. Sure, there are no disclaimers about privileged information in the email and I could post it here, but even though it's been sent out on the airwaves as an email I don't want to take the chance.
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: Permanently scarred
Posts: 1,707
Sorry, corrections made for the APC audience.
Can one of the Mods take that picture I put up down? I had no idea it was that big. I couldn't tell on my phone.
/apology
/apology
/thinking two steps ahead
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2009
Position: Capt
Posts: 2,023
Are we able to pick up trips while we are waiting for training. i.e., if I have training for currency in a couple of weeks (not current) and a trip opens up before that, can I WS it and then it gets dropped for awaiting training? Maybe they can get me in before that so I could fly it.
WRT the seniority on reserve issue, the reason the discrepancy is so apparent right now is we are overstaffed in several categories (and in the slow part of the year.) Once they finally get rid of the overstaffing, which this latest AE did a good deal of, most reserves will be flying most of the time. There won't be guys "taking the month off", especially once we get into summer flying.
I get that junior guys don't like flying when they see senior guys not doing anything - I've been there. The point was made at the meeting that the more we spread the flying evenly (like going back to no bucket system, or making the buckets smaller) the fewer pilots will be required in each category, thus the most junior guy that's ****ed because he's junior and flying all the time, won't be needed anymore and he would fall off to be more senior in a lower category. Not being doomsday, just simply pointing out that staffing inefficiencies are a good thing for the group as a whole.
We all need to ask ourselves, especially the junior guys - Do I dislike the buckets because they are fundamentally hurting the pilot group? Or do I dislike them because someone else is getting a good deal and I'm not?
I'm personally in favor of completely getting rid of the buckets and days of availability groups and going to straight seniority. I'd also like to see a hard cap and/or bow-wave type system. Anything that allows the company greater access to our productivity should be minimized IMO. Anything else, like smaller buckets, is giving a concession to the company.
I get that junior guys don't like flying when they see senior guys not doing anything - I've been there. The point was made at the meeting that the more we spread the flying evenly (like going back to no bucket system, or making the buckets smaller) the fewer pilots will be required in each category, thus the most junior guy that's ****ed because he's junior and flying all the time, won't be needed anymore and he would fall off to be more senior in a lower category. Not being doomsday, just simply pointing out that staffing inefficiencies are a good thing for the group as a whole.
We all need to ask ourselves, especially the junior guys - Do I dislike the buckets because they are fundamentally hurting the pilot group? Or do I dislike them because someone else is getting a good deal and I'm not?
I'm personally in favor of completely getting rid of the buckets and days of availability groups and going to straight seniority. I'd also like to see a hard cap and/or bow-wave type system. Anything that allows the company greater access to our productivity should be minimized IMO. Anything else, like smaller buckets, is giving a concession to the company.
And when RES was a straight RAW score system, seniority was a part of it and a major factor. It used to take 3 weeks for them to get to me. The whole point of the bucket system is as much as possible give the most senior pilot the month off and have the RES pilot work in his place. That's why they bandied about the "senior pilots want it" "everyone junior to #1 in category is junior and complaining only because they're junior" and termed it that the junior pilot would get "relief" within 5 days of work when he got to bucket 2. But that's not how it works but yet the bucket thresholds have remained unchanged from its inception no matter what peak or lull season we were in.
I really do not believe we should have a system giving people a month off and having other people fly in their place and say this is good.It's a perk for senior pilots that lets the company know just how fewer pilots it needs to operate. From what I can tell looking at ATL88B's vs A's and given more SCs and ALV+15, you can cut another 20 reserves off ATLM88B and be just fine, it'd match Captain staffing.
Last edited by forgot to bid; 04-22-2013 at 08:04 PM.
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2012
Posts: 488
I'm curious how that is.
Under the old system of just RAW score (no buckets), I lost count of the number of times that I, as one of the most senior rsv, got a trip because someone junior in the same days of avail. had a raw score that was only 1-3 points greater than mine. Anybody on rsv knows a difference of 1-5 points is basically no difference in the amount worked.
I seem to recall that the only time seniority worked for you under the straight raw system was at the beginning of the month when everybody started over at zero.
Not arguing, just wondering what I may not be remembering. I just don't remember seniority playing that large of a part.
Also want to echo what somebody else mentioned about the distribution of trips "leveling out" now that the busy season is approaching, AE movements play out, etc.. That definitely seems to be the case in my category. Most of the senior guys are flying just as much this month as junior. And I saw one that already had 5 short calls by the second week.
I'm curious how that is.
Under the old system of just RAW score (no buckets), I lost count of the number of times that I, as one of the most senior rsv, got a trip because someone junior in the same days of avail. had a raw score that was only 1-3 points greater than mine. Anybody on rsv knows a difference of 1-5 points is basically no difference in the amount worked.
I seem to recall that the only time seniority worked for you under the straight raw system was at the beginning of the month when everybody started over at zero.
Not arguing, just wondering what I may not be remembering. I just don't remember seniority playing that large of a part.
Also want to echo what somebody else mentioned about the distribution of trips "leveling out" now that the busy season is approaching, AE movements play out, etc.. That definitely seems to be the case in my category. Most of the senior guys are flying just as much this month as junior. And I saw one that already had 5 short calls by the second week.
Under the old system of just RAW score (no buckets), I lost count of the number of times that I, as one of the most senior rsv, got a trip because someone junior in the same days of avail. had a raw score that was only 1-3 points greater than mine. Anybody on rsv knows a difference of 1-5 points is basically no difference in the amount worked.
I seem to recall that the only time seniority worked for you under the straight raw system was at the beginning of the month when everybody started over at zero.
Not arguing, just wondering what I may not be remembering. I just don't remember seniority playing that large of a part.
Also want to echo what somebody else mentioned about the distribution of trips "leveling out" now that the busy season is approaching, AE movements play out, etc.. That definitely seems to be the case in my category. Most of the senior guys are flying just as much this month as junior. And I saw one that already had 5 short calls by the second week.
Suppose it's day 1 and you had the same schedule as a pilot 1 number junior to you and on day 1 a 4-day was to be assigned, that junior pilot got it can got a raw score of let's say 44 points. You didn't fly that week and sat short call or nothing at all, all worth 0 RAW.
Next week, same situation and the two of you were the only ones available, a 4-day pops up, you're up first as the junior pilot is now behind you with a raw of 44.
At the end of your trip and say the other guy didn't fly, you're both at 44. Same situation next week, trip pops up, junior guy goes because seniority won. But of course that's only if you're tied.
Toss all of that, say the junior pilot got a SC assignment to a 1 day trip and got 11 points for it. The next day you two are available for 3 days and a 3-day pops up. Barring any other restriction, you're up next with a raw of 0 and he has 11.
Toss all of that out again and remember back to what used to happen. If you were #20, #30, #40 on LC on the old system, you didn't come to work until week 4 or possibly week 3. Seniority mattered.
Where seniority did not kick in was short calls. That was assigned via a shotgun or a jagged scalpel depending, I guess, on the scheduler. Next week, same situation and the two of you were the only ones available, a 4-day pops up, you're up first as the junior pilot is now behind you with a raw of 44.
At the end of your trip and say the other guy didn't fly, you're both at 44. Same situation next week, trip pops up, junior guy goes because seniority won. But of course that's only if you're tied.
Toss all of that, say the junior pilot got a SC assignment to a 1 day trip and got 11 points for it. The next day you two are available for 3 days and a 3-day pops up. Barring any other restriction, you're up next with a raw of 0 and he has 11.
Toss all of that out again and remember back to what used to happen. If you were #20, #30, #40 on LC on the old system, you didn't come to work until week 4 or possibly week 3. Seniority mattered.
The point is, as long as the junior pilot had a RAW 1 point higher, for having worked whatever got that 1 point, he or she was listed behind you. As to what a day is worth, I've seen a minimum of 9 and a high of 12, but most days are worth 10-11 points. There were times I YS'd a 2-day to get to the back of the line but a 1 point difference did not mean seniority won. Seniority works under the same premise, 1 digit difference is all it takes to be 1 number junior or senior no matter what you had done to get there and it is what it is, we accept it. Just like I accept the raw system even though I think it's bad deal for more pilots than it is a good deal for a few pilots.
Everyone is flying now, I agree. When they went from 100-110 RES in my category to the 80s for the last 4 months despite the category growing, everyone gets to fly. I think it was foolish to think that outside of a category like the ER and it's issues in the off season, the company wasn't just going to okay domestic pilots takings month after month off. They'd fix that glitch.
But let me cut to the chase, what you have here is people fighting for the right to take a month off from work with full pay. On the 88 the previous system was balanced QOL from top to bottom for nearly all 110 except those working every weekend, the new system shifts the benefit to a few and screwed reserve up for the majority. Now, they cut back on reserves and people are wondering if they'll actually hit the ALV+15 that was supposedly never going to happen. I don't think people thought this past the short term gain for a few because they hope to be a part of the few. But I guess I look at this the same as if we took 1 hour from all 530 pilots on the 88 and let that pay for some to have a month off of flying at ALV. It'd benefit 7 pilots. Probably top 7, but hey, you'll be senior one day too.
But that's just imho. FWIW, I bid reserve for four years to have weekends off, now, I'd rather fly a line with weekends on. That's what I think of our reserve system and I'd be top 3rd of reserve.
Last edited by forgot to bid; 04-22-2013 at 10:44 PM.
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