Here is what the company agreed to in WSC.

A long-call pilot has a 12-hour leash, which means that he may not be required to report for a rotation in less than 12 hours or start short call in less than 10 hours from fi rst attempted notifi cation. As long as a pilot is contactable via at least one of the numbers listed in DBMS (just enough to know the telephone has not been called), then he will not have to check his schedule during routine long-call days. As long as Scheduling has not called one of those numbers, his 12-hour leash is always pushing out in front of the current time. If a long-call pilot desires to be out of contact entirely for periods of time (sleeping without interruption, golfi ng without a cell phone, etc.), then he must check his schedule (or messages) at least every 9 hours. This ensures that he can acknowledge no later than 3 hours prior to any rotation, 1 hour prior to start of a short call or 6 hours after the start of a rest period that might have been assigned while he was out of contact.

 

Most of the examples given could have also been flown under the old FAR's. If the trips were international you could fly an unlimited amount of days. Domestically you could probably fly what he posted legally. Trips with 30 hour layovers tend to have a lot of credit so you could easily be under 30. Toss in trips with dh legs and I suspect you would see it possible more often under the old FAR then the new one.

 

Timbo, put it on the swap board as pick up do not contact. Someone is bound to take it.

 

My example assumed 7 duty periods in 7 days - and with a couple of short days in there, it's very possible. I'm junior in the MSP 88 and I have 4 - 4 day trips next month. Each trip has a 1 leg day. Of those 1 leg days, the longest duty period is 4:51. The way things are going, if it's possible, it will probably become the norm

Under the old rules, a domestic pilot couldn't work more than 6 days in a row without a long layover in there somewhere because of the 24 off in 7 calendar days. With the new rules, it's possible to work as much 7 days without a long break because of the rolling 168. Just something people will need to take into account when bidding.

 

I don't understand. The 30 consecutive hours is in a rolling 168 hour window. 30 hours>24 hours so how can you possibly work 7 days in a row? I agree that counting a 30 hour layover as rest totally blows, but that is not really a change. You may indeed be working 7 consecutive calendar days but that is no different than before in fact the rest has been bumped from 24 to 30.

If the 30 consecutive hours are in the beginning then you have the first day of the week off.

One thing all this confusion points out is that we, both Pilots and schedulers, have not been adequately prepared for this transition.

The company had "hoped" for a different interpretation of 117. Well first off that is just another example of "hope" not being a sound strategy......... for anything. And second, WTFFF was plan b?

The company and DALPA has stuff posted - well thats just great. How about some actual training were we get paid for doing work - you know the old fashioned way. We do work - we get paid.

Scoop

 

Yes, but the 137 hours of work equates to 5.7 days (5 days, 17 hour)s. I guess we don't see what you're getting at. Yes, you can work 7 actual days with the new regs, if you start late on day 1 and end early on day 7 but you're not working 7 whole days continuously. You're only working 5 days, 16 hours without getting a 30 hours break.

That's one of the things about the FAR 117 - it's parts of it are the same, just labeled and defined differently.

Instead of 1 day off in 7, now we get 30 hours off in 168 hours of duty. (which is 1 day, 6 hours off every 7 days).

 

The original question was, can you work a 4 day trip followed by a 3 day trip and not have a 30 hour break somewhere in the middle? The answer is yes, it is possible. You can work 7 flight duty periods in 7 days without a 30 hour break. Sure, it would require a late report on day 1 and an early release on day 7 (and it would need to be under 60 total flight duty period hours), but it's is possible. Under the old rules it would not be legal due to the 24 off in 7 calendar days requirement. That's all I was trying say.

 

I thought under part 121 your 24/7 break could be a 24 hour layover, right? So technically, you could work 7 days in a row under the old rules?

 

Correct. My original pbs award for October included back to back 5 day trips.

 

From the ALPA Guide: "Before beginning any reserve or FDP assignment, the flightcrew member must have received a 30
consecutive-hour rest within the past 168 consecutive
hours that precedes the beginning of the FDP."

The key: this is a look back rule. By the end of that last FDP you may be able to look back 168hrs and not see 30 consecutive hours rest -- and still be legal.