Don't we have more months where we don't have vacation? Why are the months with vacation always cited (e.g. During the company's push to have us vote yes C2012 I particularly liked the one that started out with "In a month where you have 2 weeks vac and are on reserve....":confused:) as how great things are?

Ok. I'm just trying to figure out where you are coming from.

So, you are giving us as Delta pilots advice about what we should do, how we should negotiate, and you had hoped the 30% pay cut you took at least went to us, out of the goodness of your heart and have no desire to ever fly for DAL mainline? Ok.

Thanks! But, why do you like us so much? Is it the double breasted jacket and the gold buttons? :D

My point is that there are times where reserve is much much better than it was in years past.... enough so that a more senior pilot will bid it. Even for the lowly PD, he would have a better month when he has vacation... uness of course all of his has been cancelled:rolleyes:. And even in non reserve months, the reserve guarantee is much better than in past contracts. And I do not buy for a second that he is working more. He might be actually FLYING more, but as I said again.. boo hoo. He is on reserve, and he should expect to be called as a reserve pilot. Not flying on an on call day is NOT the same as having the day off. Sorry, but it isn't. His argument is that it is. If he is a uber junior guy here at DAL, he will only be on reserve thru the summer. After that, it will be by choice. Yup... I said it. He will be senior (some day).


Sympathy for PD /OFF

So, there is a NYC ER FO on his 5th greenslip? Wow. Didn't the company just displace a bunch of NYC ER FO's so they could properly staff the MD88's?

I think so, because I remember last year, in Atlanta alone, there were days when 30 plus greenslips went out on the MD88, because they were short staffed.

But wait, hadn't they previously displaced a ton of MD88 FO's to staff the 717's?

Nevermind. Seems like there might be some robbing of Peter to pay Paul going on here. I hope they catch up. :rolleyes:

An impressive negotiator would not play the game of following their rules and would change the metrics used. Live with the other side's paradigm that works against you? How about something else? Fellow employee's rates today vs post-pay cuts; CEO pay/options; pilot pay as a percentage of profits? Not coming out against you, Iamapilot, but the mindset of defeatism seems ingrained before we've even started. I understand why, but I wish we could expect more from our expert negotiators.

defeatism? is that what you guys got from my post? holy sh!t I'm no where near a defeatist.:confused:

It's true...not all of us could stagnate as a WB CA.

I suspect, given a choice of a $0.05/hr raise for yourself or a $10/hr raise for FOs, you'd take the former.

youre messing up a carefully laid out deterrent.

I thought the "two weeks" thing was a little much, even though there are jsut as many senior pilots (with 4-5 weeks) as there are junior pilots (with 2-3) on reserve but even with one week it's pretty much worth it. Buying a couple days to tack onto an existing week with your bank to push you into the next vacation pro-ration step is helpful (Like T apparently did recently).

I like the idea by Imapilot to have the ADG get up to 5:15.
(heck, I'd like to see it eventually go to 6:00 like FDX... but let's get take baby steps)

Not saying you are, but I've heard the points you referenced (and many more in my short time here) as to why we shouldn't expect more. In fact I was informed by a capt I flew with that doing better than C2012 (which was incredibly awesome he assured me) was not (humanly) possible. So do I think a negotiator will be able to pull off what I said in my prior post? Do I think I could? No to both. They're much smarter in their speciality than I could ever be. As to working the numbers against management's lawyers and getting us a PWA deserving of a Disney movie showing how they overcame incredible challenges and beat the odds, well let's just say I've had my expectations effectively managed downward. It only took one contract to bring me in line. I'm the defeatist with his backpack full of humble.