Originally Posted by Sink r8 (Post 1818025)

Seniority is currency. You invest it however you want. Your pay is also currency, and decide to live where want. That makes NYC junior, because it's expensive. That's the leveling mechanism.

We don't need COLA to level out the bases, but then we also need to respect the bases by not trying to pilfer flying through mechanisms like OOBS+SWF, which punish those who pay (dearly) to live near expensive bases.

It's absolutely outrageous for a guy who commutes to a junior expensive base to decide he needs to be paid more, then try to syphon the flying via OOBS+SWF. There are probably a few New York expressions to describe these sorts of shenanigans.

Nonetheless, I'm willing to keep an open mind, and be paid for the hardship of maintaining my primary residence within driving distance of one of the most expensive cities in the nation, if not the world. I think COL is probably near 2X ATL. I'm willing to settle for about 1.75X as much as an ATL pilot, who can be paid about 1.75X as much as a pilot who lived in rural Arkansas.

If

The last paragraph is TIC, of course. Here are some basic principles of behavior that are not TIC, of course:
1). If you want access to my base's flying, you must bid it.
2). If you like my base as it is, bid it.
3). If you don't like my base as it is, don't bid it.
4). If you bid my base voluntarily, don't whine about factors that were known in advance.

Originally Posted by gzsg (Post 1818059)

If NYC had 2X COL it would be the senior base. Food for thought.

Originally Posted by flyallnite (Post 1818064)

The point that Humboldt was making here before it was hijacked was that once upon a time, not so long ago, a person hired at DL as a pilot could expect to afford a home and a lifestyle commensurate with the job in any city we had a base in, such as Dallas, Boston, Chicago, NY or LA. That's no longer the case. To get back to that would require a raise on the order of double our current salary. So we have what amounts to forced commuting for a substantial bunch of pilots. What Humboldt also pointed out was that the opening of an LA 717 base would create more positions that would be necessarily commute -to jobs due to the fact that an FO couldn't afford a one bedroom loft in LA these days.

Carry on...

Originally Posted by forgot to bid (Post 1818051)

I'm so confused now as to what I'm supposed to want.

Originally Posted by gzsg (Post 1818059)

If NYC had 2X COL it would be the senior base. Food for thought.

Originally Posted by full of luv (Post 1818074)

Agreed, but unfortunately that is what the profession has become, a group of vagabonds.
VA has many applicants for jobs that are based in SFO, yet they pay less than DAL.
HAL has many applicants for jobs all based in HNL, yet they pay less than DAL.
JBlue has many applicants for JFK positions, yet they all pay less than DAL.
Clearly, the up and coming generation of pilots have no qualms about commuting and are willing to do it for quite less than the DAL pilot.

Flat in LA? Unfortunately, most pilots that have the req's for DAL are of child rearing/bearing age and need a little more space and better QOL for family than a flat near LAX.

So yes, his point may be true, but is not relevant in the current state of the industry.

Originally Posted by flyallnite (Post 1818095)

It is indeed what the profession has become, and that is why it's more relevant than ever. We are not JBLU, or VA. We are Delta, the most profitable airline in the world, ever, in history--and getting more so every day. Our contract in amendable in a few months, AA just signed a whopper of a raise, and our managers are making out like bandits. Check the salaries of some of our VP's. Not including stock options. How is this not relevant?

Originally Posted by 80ktsClamp (Post 1817814)

Great advice!

I'd suggest the FOM, learning objectives document and aircraft limitations/memory items. If you walk into day one with that down, newhire will be a breeze!

Originally Posted by full of luv (Post 1818097)

That above is ALL relevant. I'm on your side, pilots should participate in success of Delta and if not now in this environment, then we never will.
Other employees have had mid-contract (pilot contract) pay raises that we have had to wait to negotiate for. Now is the time.