Airline Pilot Central Forums - Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta?

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- - Any "Latest & Greatest" about Delta? (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/delta/36912-any-latest-greatest-about-delta.html)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karnak (Post 1895407)

Correct. 3-year phase out.

Company was very profitable. We'd just won (1996) the Snap-Up arbitration. Went on strike with 6 items still open. Clinton sent his counsel to end it. 3 items went to the company. 3 to us.

We showed them!

So, if you don't think it was the right move, what should we have done? :confused:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karnak (Post 1895251)

The grievance was not about the FAR. It was about the contract limitation in Section 4 on hours of service. We don't grieve FAR's…we grieve violations of our contract. It just so happened that the FAR's also limited hours of service for a pilot.

I don't worry about arbitrator's decisions, but I recognize there is risk when a third party makes a decision to settle a dispute. I don't worry about an engine failure during takeoff, but I prepare for it by having my hand on the throttles - even if it's statistically unlikely.

Had this grievance gone to the System Board, and all we got out of it was a "cease & desist" order by a certain date, or a decision that changed the definition of "EASK" (The 1990 arbitrator's award led to a change of the definition of "pilot" in our contract!), would we be better off?

Translation: NEVER fight the company over anything. EVER. Always make a deal...no matter what the grievance.

Carl

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karnak (Post 1895306)

That's an interesting discussion point. Is it beneficial to us to force the company into a less profitable marketing or ops position?

I suppose if it gave us leverage to tighten-up the 1.E terms, then maybe so. If it didn't, then we'd be defecating in our own living room.

From a historical perspective, we've gained more from deals with a handshake, then deals at gunpoint. That 3% raise we got as a result of our strike was sweet, though. Not as sweet financially as the JCBA or C2012, but it was a fight - so it was righteous.

Again, DO NOT fight the company. If they want to outsource jobs by ignoring Scope, DO NOT fight them over it. Especially since it will make the company more profitable. That will ultimately good for pilots anyway...for the ones remaining that is.

Carl

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karnak (Post 1895407)

That strike was such a mistake. NEVER fight the company. EVER.

Carl

Quote:

Originally Posted by newKnow (Post 1895415)

So, if you don't think it was the right move, what should we have done? :confused:

Surrender.

NEVER fight the company.

Carl

TA is done.

Let the games begin.

Cue all the new arrivals to this board with their newly hatched talking points and message shaping briefing sheets.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheManager (Post 1895486)

TA is done.

Let the games begin.

I agree.
The grievance settlement was a huge tell.

We have a TA.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Karnak (Post 1895306)

Is it beneficial to us to force the company into a less profitable marketing or ops position?.........(snip)....If it didn't, then we'd be defecating in our own living room.

That is the same type of "excuse" the NW mec used to justify allowing the company to flex-up hours of certain categories, multiple times, while pilots were on furlough. Despite the fact that the contract said "thou shall Not allow flex-up with pilots on furlough."

But hey......some widebody guys got to make extra coin during those times.

Never mind the intended group for that contractual protection, the furloughs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by newKnow (Post 1895415)

So, if you don't think it was the right move, what should we have done? :confused:

In that situation? What we did!

I think we were right to fight. The company stopped negotiating in good faith. The NMB said so, the White House backed them up, and were were released. The MEC did their homework, and knew the fight would be allowed to happen. The company didn't think it would, and tried to make it look more dire for the economy by ensuring (via lockout) that it would be a TOTAL cessation of operation.

I also think it would be stupid to ignore what our fight gained us. We followed the rules, fought the fight, and got 3%.

It certainly set the stage for the larger gains at UAL and DAL a couple of years later, but in terms of gains for the NWA pilots - not much.

We fought a lot (the 3% Snap Up was a fresh example for us in 1998), because that was the only way to achieve any gains with that management.

Our peers at SWA and elsewhere didn't fight, and managed to maintain their gains while were backsliding after 9/11. Different management. We have a different management now, too.

The gains we've gotten since the merger have been done without drawn-out negotiations. Our MEC has done their homework, and knows how the NMB and White House view "fighting" in this environment.

Call your reps and ask them what they've heard from the NMB about our ability to get to a release in this lifetime.

New hire here... Just curious what investment options are offered for the 15% DC into our 401k? What brokerage is it and do they offer a s&p 500 index or a total stock market index? Ticker? Thanks!