How is that relevant? :confused:

They were never part of the merger. That argument holds zero water.

TOGA;
This is the type of thing that is only meant to divide a group. It has a solution. It many not be the best solution but it was the one agreed to.

Like I said, you want something that is legal in the PWA, and was subject to MEMRAT to change, then engage your leadership, do not file a grievance that will not see the light of day and do not file a DFR on something that was VOTED on. That is the quickest way to permanently divide a group that has done almost everything correct to this point.

Surprise, Surprise. Another class action lawsuit by North guys, this time by brand newbies. How much merger equity did you get? :confused: How much will that future new hire get? :confused:

Who is gonna have more in his DC account at the five year point?:confused:

Sorry, it holds ALL the water. You were a pre-merger NWA pilot at the time of the merger. That spot on the seniority list got you two things:

1) A cut of the merger equity
2) The DC rate you are complaining about, which BTW, equals the exact average that ALL pre-merger NWA pilots are getting.

Tell me why you think the NWA "new hires" should get more DC than the average of the rest of the NWA pilots??? Are you so special?

Can you really not figure this one out?

So if we are destined to be c-scale pilots for four years and we took it in the shorts on the SLI to whom should I or should I not pay union dues? So our union is only required to represent pilot interests in good faith each four years during section six negotiations? Then why not just hire professional negotiators and put the union dues into Fidelity?

Do you actually think hundreds of pilots aren't going to care or notice a thousand new hires having nearly twice the DC? The mere fact that the LEE has chosen to not address this grievance leads me to believe it is legitimate and likely defenseless in court. Furthermore, this inequity falling on deaf ears has only fueled my personal passion for the matter. A win in court would set a new course for ALPA; senior pilots gaining off the backs of their peers through concessions will prove to be a costly strategy.

From my perspective, you had a windfall on a SLI. In addition, you are gaining on the nearly 2000 near term retirements that NWA brought to the table. On top of all that, you get nearly twice the DC rate and hide behind the PWA when a guy with the exact same retirement plan as you wants the same rate. How do your figure there is unity when there is already such blatant disparity?

Heck, send me your personal address and I will mail you a red cover for your PWA.

Wow, go out of the country on one turn and you come back to this? :)

Can I add something, I heard once from a pretty good insider that I flew with (ACL would remember who because I PM'd him about it a few months ago), whatever it was that the NWA and DAL committees agreed to (LOA 19? JPWA?), was 100% completed when the NWA ALPA realized the situation with the new hires and DC and said they wanted to change that. But that unraveled a lot of what had been negotiated, i.e. all of the give and take, and by that point couldn't just be done. At that point the DAL's team didn't want to make a mess and start over it as they thought they'd given up enough and if you talk to them they'll tell you. At that point NWA's team agreed not to go on and they're you go.

Thats about as technical as FTB can get and I apologize.

As far as the forum, it sucks everytime we get in these back and forths, 100% sucks. But on the other hand, we need to talk it out so while it sucks I'm fine with up until the point we forget that we can't undo the past and that the solution is finding out what and how something can be fixed. And thats where the ACL's, Sailings, Slows, Afro's and NewK's come in. NewK.

TOGA I ask the rhetorical question. Do you get it?

How do you grieve something that is black and white in the PWA in which the company is in compliance of? Yep, though so.

As for nailing Lee to the wall on this one, I need to call you out on that one too. YOUR NWA MEC made a decision on where the money was going to go. They wanted it to go somewhere else, and accepted this DC matrix and your method for determining the longevity steps to make sure the hourly rates were equal on day one.

Remember that this was done prior to the SLI, so we were working as two MEC's that were fighting for seniority position and a process to come to a joint agreement and a SLI settlement, so the onus falls solely on the former NWA MEC and negotiating team members. They made the choice for their group. The pot of money was finite as we were in the 120 range for oil, tightening credit, and two carriers that just emerged from 1113C. I beleive that 2012 will give us a lot more options. The NWA MEC made their choice and sent it to their members unanimously for MEMRAT.

All things considered we are way ahead of anyone else in regards to mergers. Realize that what we did, the time frame we did it in and where we are today resulted in some quick decisions that may have led to some buyers remorse, but we will be in a position to deal with that as the corporation will be more profitable in the long run.

And the NWA MEC had the option, and opted to go forward as is. They could have nuked it and unraveled a lot of it, but opted not to. The anger though right is misdirected.

Thanks Scoop,

Yeah, the quoted email was just a little over the top. Most of us are just hunkered down and marching forward....sort of like walking into a cold rain. We don't like it much, but we're walk'en:D It has honestly been a year since most of us have felt "comfortable". That, of course, just takes time.

Your IT is so good in some areas (FMC and ACARS auto loads,) but so much just makes us shake our heads. We honestly gave up great "stuff", we just wish you guys had seen it too so you know what we are shaking our heads over.

I agree with ACL, the company is willing to spend the big bucks to get IT outta the ditch and back on the road. This will result in all kinds of great things neither of us have seen. Can't wait:cool:

All the best,
Ferd