Originally Posted by Bucking Bar (Post 1154833)

Carried over from another thread because it seems more relevant here ....

The Company is rumored to have approached ALPA for a significant scope concession to allow many more 76 seat jets. My posts have been aimed at educating mainline pilots why they might want to look past the 717 and understand the numbers which make airplanes like the CRj905 more desired by management and more operationally flexible. Thus, if we had to play this game defensively; we would rather have the 905's than the 717's; they make more money.

As things stand at the end of 2011, beginning of 2012, mainline has 718 airplanes. At 767 mainline jets the three to one language is triggered. 153 76 seat jets are currently authorized and management has bought every single one they were allowed to buy ... now they want more. It would take a mainline fleet growing by 49 jets to make that happen.

However, then management runs into the 255 total limit on 70/76 seat jets. As you can guess, they've maxed that limit out also.

My guess is that Management wants concessions on one of those two limits with the promise that "if we ever pull down the mainline fleet, we will pull down DCI in a proportionate fashion." We've seen that before and it failed to protect jobs in Contract 2000 because the minute things got tough the Company said "we really need these bigger RJ's to make money and stay in business" so we removed those scope protections and furloughed mainline pilots. Some, ironically, found employment on the same jets ALPA outsourced, at one fifth the pay that they were making at Delta.

Strategically, it would be smarter for Delta pilots to want the real action, the 905's, where Delta's 10K reports say the profits are. That's the more secure position and instead of looking for cheap and used, Delta management is obtaining the best and new for their "regional" operations, again.

The task of our Negotiating Committee is to get Delta pilots in those seats, performing Delta flying. Delta can buy more RJ's if it wants WITHOUT SCOPE CHANGES and fly them with mainline pilots. We should all support and encourage our Reps, Admin and Negotiators to hold the high ground against outsourcing our jobs.

Originally Posted by capncrunch (Post 1154846)

Not very far fetched at all. Another merger and we will easily hit that scope trigger. If not that, I see management getting used aircraft to cross that trigger, fly said aircraft till they are used up and then never replace them. No need, they crossed the scope trigger they needed and now the extra DCI aircraft can pick up the load.

Originally Posted by acl65pilot (Post 1154864)

Its a rumor, and I would say, wait until the actual TA in which you would vote on.

That said, I could see a production balance sort of position from the company. One where we take the current mainline jet count and the current DCI 76 seat jet count(153). With these two numbers growth and reductions are tied. Currently we have a one way growth plan. We grow, they add 76 seat jets at a 3-1 ratio but when we shrink the jets stay. They may offer a quid that makes the 76 seat jets shrink too, with a max cap of 255 76 seat jets. I am sure the company will want to take the 70 seats out of the mix and make them unlimited, or make them replace them 1 for 1 up to 255 with a production balance in both directions.

Again, I can see the company wanting this, but I have a real hard time seeing the majority of the reps going for an outright deal where we effectively allow more large RJ's even if they are tied to mainline jet count. Allowing the same number of 70+ seat jets with a 255 limit, which is where currently are at, but with a production balance where they can only grow on a one to one basis and shrink on a one to one basis with us seems to be more rational from a company and or pilot perspective, but again, even if the reps signed off on this, I am not sure the pilots would.

Instead of staying awake at night worrying about what they might do, or what the company may demand, I will wait for a TA that needs to get voted on, then vote on it. I will continually send my reps direction on this issue as well.

Thinking that we will grow if we allow more large jets is an age old trick though. yawn. :rolleyes:

Originally Posted by acl65pilot (Post 1154864)

Allowing the same number of 70+ seat jets with a 255 limit, which is where currently are at, but with a production balance where they can only grow on a one to one basis and shrink on a one to one basis with us seems to be more rational from a company and or pilot perspective, but again, even if the reps signed off on this, I am not sure the pilots would.

Originally Posted by acl65pilot (Post 1154864)

Its a rumor, and I would say, wait until the actual TA in which you would vote on.

That said, I could see a production balance sort of position from the company. One where we take the current mainline jet count and the current DCI 76 seat jet count(153). With these two numbers growth and reductions are tied. Currently we have a one way growth plan. We grow, they add 76 seat jets at a 3-1 ratio but when we shrink the jets stay. They may offer a quid that makes the 76 seat jets shrink too, with a max cap of 255 76 seat jets. I am sure the company will want to take the 70 seats out of the mix and make them unlimited, or make them replace them 1 for 1 up to 255 with a production balance in both directions.

Again, I can see the company wanting this, but I have a real hard time seeing the majority of the reps going for an outright deal where we effectively allow more large RJ's even if they are tied to mainline jet count. Allowing the same number of 70+ seat jets with a 255 limit, which is where currently are at, but with a production balance where they can only grow on a one to one basis and shrink on a one to one basis with us seems to be more rational from a company and or pilot perspective, but again, even if the reps signed off on this, I am not sure the pilots would.

Instead of staying awake at night worrying about what they might do, or what the company may demand, I will wait for a TA that needs to get voted on, then vote on it. I will continually send my reps direction on this issue as well.

Thinking that we will grow if we allow more large jets is an age old trick though. yawn. :rolleyes:

Originally Posted by Scoop (Post 1154870)

And another thing - No matter what DALPA decides on, the Hell with a 3-1 ratio. That blows!

Scoop

Originally Posted by Free Bird (Post 1154876)

I'd really like to know what was going through the DALPA negotiators heads when that was included into the contract?

Originally Posted by Columbia (Post 1154890)

Thoughts of their very own oil painting. :D