Delta Hiring News
01-07-2015 | 06:08 AM
#6502
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 391
Likes: 1
From: Utah Chapter
airspeed. You're a real dude and i'd fly with you any day. I'd also put you on my short stack for hiring. I also agree with you on the airline apps thing and how ludicrous it is. 
Delta/Ual etc are trying to weed out candidates by using a silly app process to measure "precision" and "attention to detail" with. All they need to do is look at whose paid their dues, stuck with this business during hardships, and who really wants the job. To me, that is what an ideal candidate for hire is. Not some dude forced to join a women's or a minorities' organization to beg for a job. That is fake.
Delta/Ual etc are trying to weed out candidates by using a silly app process to measure "precision" and "attention to detail" with. All they need to do is look at whose paid their dues, stuck with this business during hardships, and who really wants the job. To me, that is what an ideal candidate for hire is. Not some dude forced to join a women's or a minorities' organization to beg for a job. That is fake.
Now, upscale this to DAL, with a need to hire 1k this year, and a pile of maybe 10k apps that meet basic qual mins.
Come up with a process that finds the "dudes" (or dudettes) who meet your criteria without needing a legion of HR folks to do this, and you'll make more money than you will in the piloting business.
01-07-2015 | 06:14 AM
#6503
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 5,244
Likes: 2
From: Baja Vermont
After 40 years of being in this business, hired at EA, interviewed at others, being a hiring person both AFRES and Civilian flight department, one observation--the airlines (inc Delta Air Lines) know about hiring better than just about any organization. They know exactly who they want and how to discriminate among thousands of apps to get who they want. Anyone gainsaying the process is a fool and not destined to get hired.
EA had the famous pilot who murdered his wife and wood chipped her; DL had a Captain Witt (?) who was the subject of a front page WSJ article about his "colorful" behavior. Airlines don't want these people and their systems are designed to weed them out.
Respect that fact, meet their requirements honestly and don't, for a moment, think its a game. Disparaging attitudes, even hidden, are nearly always discovered. How many stories are there of the guy who lit into a gate agent only to find out about in the interview, if he was lucky to find out at all.
GF
EA had the famous pilot who murdered his wife and wood chipped her; DL had a Captain Witt (?) who was the subject of a front page WSJ article about his "colorful" behavior. Airlines don't want these people and their systems are designed to weed them out.
Respect that fact, meet their requirements honestly and don't, for a moment, think its a game. Disparaging attitudes, even hidden, are nearly always discovered. How many stories are there of the guy who lit into a gate agent only to find out about in the interview, if he was lucky to find out at all.
GF
01-07-2015 | 06:17 AM
#6504
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 391
Likes: 1
From: Utah Chapter
After 40 years of being in this business, hired at EA, interviewed at others, being a hiring person both AFRES and Civilian flight department, one observation--the airlines (inc Delta Air Lines) know about hiring better than just about any organization. They know exactly who they want and how to discriminate among thousands of apps to get who they want. Anyone gainsaying the process is a fool and not destined to get hired.
EA had the famous pilot who murdered his wife and wood chipped her; DL had a Captain Witt (?) who was the subject of a front page WSJ article about his "colorful" behavior. Airlines don't want these people and their systems are designed to weed them out.
Respect that fact, meet their requirements honestly and don't, for a moment, think its a game. Disparaging attitudes, even hidden, are nearly always discovered. How many stories are there of the guy who lit into a gate agent only to find out about in the interview, if he was lucky to find out at all.
GF
EA had the famous pilot who murdered his wife and wood chipped her; DL had a Captain Witt (?) who was the subject of a front page WSJ article about his "colorful" behavior. Airlines don't want these people and their systems are designed to weed them out.
Respect that fact, meet their requirements honestly and don't, for a moment, think its a game. Disparaging attitudes, even hidden, are nearly always discovered. How many stories are there of the guy who lit into a gate agent only to find out about in the interview, if he was lucky to find out at all.
GF
And again, even if Xerxes is wrong, he has the scepter.
01-07-2015 | 06:50 AM
#6505
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,386
Likes: 0
What awesome insight that would work great for a small flying op hiring a handful of pilots. Put out an advert, take a look at fifty resumes, make twenty phone interviews, call in fifteen to an in-person interview, and hire ten.
Now, upscale this to DAL, with a need to hire 1k this year, and a pile of maybe 10k apps that meet basic qual mins.
Come up with a process that finds the "dudes" (or dudettes) who meet your criteria without needing a legion of HR folks to do this, and you'll make more money than you will in the piloting business.
Now, upscale this to DAL, with a need to hire 1k this year, and a pile of maybe 10k apps that meet basic qual mins.
Come up with a process that finds the "dudes" (or dudettes) who meet your criteria without needing a legion of HR folks to do this, and you'll make more money than you will in the piloting business.
01-07-2015 | 06:52 AM
#6506
Doesn't Get Weekends Off
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,599
Likes: 2
01-07-2015 | 06:57 AM
#6507
Banned
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 309
Likes: 0
Look, people can have opinions and that doesn't mean that they are simply negative people just because they do not agree with the process.
Every single airline has or will have pilots that should not be in the cockpit and I'm sure we have all flown with them.
There is no right or wrong way there are just different methods when it comes to screening. Some that myself and I'm sure others on the board do not agree with either.
No one on here knows me, or what I had to go through to get where I'm at. Nor do I expect any awards, pats on the back, or a Wikipedia piece written about me.
For those that are curious who this "holier than thou, entitled, **** don't stink aviator is" I will tell you
I came up the ranks by doing whatever I could to fly after I finished high school. I begged, borrowed and steal (well not really steal) to get my tickets. I was never a CFI as I ran out of money and needed to work.
So I took off jobs such as hotel clerk, pizza boy, etc until I could Segway my way into flying fulltime
My first jobs were traffic watch, flying jumpers, air tours, aerial photography. This was over 20 years ago.
I moved my way up to cargo, charter, then onto corp, VVIP, 121 etc
I didn't have perfect 20/20 so the mil was not an option for me.
Yes, I survived on ramen noodles, lived out of my car in the freezing cold, drove all over the country, did what had to be done.
Drove my 4cyl Datsun that was only running on 3 all the way from the east coast to the Grand Canyon and had to trade a soccer ball, 2 pairs of sneakers, and comic books just to pay for the gas enroute when I was almost there. This was 1997. Things were very diff back then.
Last 8 years been overseas. Living in Europe and some places was great, India, Afghanistan, and others were not....
I've also had 2 aviation companies. So I do know what I'm talking about when it comes to hiring.
First impressions are eveything, but people can blow sunshine on you all day long, no matter how many psych tests you give you can never tell what that person will do in the future
Regarding the psych test, the answers are way too ambiguous. I'll never forget when I did the screening at emirates and we were doing the psych, a guy from South Africa says "they ask me in the computer test do I feel like people are trying to rob me, well of course I do, I live in Johannesburg!!!
So, now I'm here in China. And yes, I absolutely have paid my dues. This has nothing at all with thinking I better or worse than the other guy. And I could really care less about those of you who make your jokes. I find it amusing and I would venture to say most of you who make these stupid comments would Prob be crapping your pants if you have been in some of the situations I've been in. Inside and outside the airplane
So here are my points
1. Play the game. Yes if xyz airline wants you to take a psych test, ask you to play naked twister, whatever....it's the price of admission
2. Everyone is different, just because people don't agree with your opinion doesn't mean they are wrong and you are right. No, I don't believe in psych test and I think they are ridiculous. There I said it. Back in the 1400s the world thought that the earth was flat, and one man proved them wrong.....
3. College degree has nothing to do with flying an airplane. Nothing. There I said that too. IMHO it's great for engineers. But I would highly value experience and interaction in many different environments while flying rather than a piece of paper saying you met the required number of classes
4. Pilots should be interviewing pilots. Pilots should be writing the job descriptions. Pilots should be doing it all NOT HR
How many times have you seen HR write a job description and you just said to yourself *** is this? No HR person is going to understand what it's like to be sitting in Kandahar when the VHF comms go out so your stuck because you don't have UHF and your only options are to go downtown or stay in the baking heat inside the airplane.
They are not going to understand why you quit your job flying 135 when the owner starts making it 134 1/2 and you had just signed a training bond. So now if you quit they are gonna sue you but if you don't and the Feds find out then...
There are one million examples I'm sure we can all give.
As to my original post regarding work history. I think 10 years is enough. This is my opinion. When and if I apply to a carrier that requires more than I'll do my best to rem it.
Funny comment about the cop thing, actually my memory is not that bad. But when they ask on the app DAY month and year I have a little problem as I would have no idea the exact day or why it would even matter
And moving violations? Well without going to my state agency I would have no idea as well. Since I can't do it online then being on China makes it that much more difficult
5. For those of you who have never worked as an expat in Asia, the Middle East or Africa, you truly have no idea the hardships. It's a VERY big difference when your in a complete craphole knowing your gonna stay one week as opposed to one year.
So in the end, yes I do feel "entitled" to Atleast get a shot at an interview. I've paid my dues above and beyond, there is no real difference between what DAL pilots due on a daily basis then any of the rest of us. We all fly turbine equipment in the weather and for some of us it's in not so nice places.
Every single airline has or will have pilots that should not be in the cockpit and I'm sure we have all flown with them.
There is no right or wrong way there are just different methods when it comes to screening. Some that myself and I'm sure others on the board do not agree with either.
No one on here knows me, or what I had to go through to get where I'm at. Nor do I expect any awards, pats on the back, or a Wikipedia piece written about me.
For those that are curious who this "holier than thou, entitled, **** don't stink aviator is" I will tell you
I came up the ranks by doing whatever I could to fly after I finished high school. I begged, borrowed and steal (well not really steal) to get my tickets. I was never a CFI as I ran out of money and needed to work.
So I took off jobs such as hotel clerk, pizza boy, etc until I could Segway my way into flying fulltime
My first jobs were traffic watch, flying jumpers, air tours, aerial photography. This was over 20 years ago.
I moved my way up to cargo, charter, then onto corp, VVIP, 121 etc
I didn't have perfect 20/20 so the mil was not an option for me.
Yes, I survived on ramen noodles, lived out of my car in the freezing cold, drove all over the country, did what had to be done.
Drove my 4cyl Datsun that was only running on 3 all the way from the east coast to the Grand Canyon and had to trade a soccer ball, 2 pairs of sneakers, and comic books just to pay for the gas enroute when I was almost there. This was 1997. Things were very diff back then.
Last 8 years been overseas. Living in Europe and some places was great, India, Afghanistan, and others were not....
I've also had 2 aviation companies. So I do know what I'm talking about when it comes to hiring.
First impressions are eveything, but people can blow sunshine on you all day long, no matter how many psych tests you give you can never tell what that person will do in the future
Regarding the psych test, the answers are way too ambiguous. I'll never forget when I did the screening at emirates and we were doing the psych, a guy from South Africa says "they ask me in the computer test do I feel like people are trying to rob me, well of course I do, I live in Johannesburg!!!
So, now I'm here in China. And yes, I absolutely have paid my dues. This has nothing at all with thinking I better or worse than the other guy. And I could really care less about those of you who make your jokes. I find it amusing and I would venture to say most of you who make these stupid comments would Prob be crapping your pants if you have been in some of the situations I've been in. Inside and outside the airplane
So here are my points
1. Play the game. Yes if xyz airline wants you to take a psych test, ask you to play naked twister, whatever....it's the price of admission
2. Everyone is different, just because people don't agree with your opinion doesn't mean they are wrong and you are right. No, I don't believe in psych test and I think they are ridiculous. There I said it. Back in the 1400s the world thought that the earth was flat, and one man proved them wrong.....
3. College degree has nothing to do with flying an airplane. Nothing. There I said that too. IMHO it's great for engineers. But I would highly value experience and interaction in many different environments while flying rather than a piece of paper saying you met the required number of classes
4. Pilots should be interviewing pilots. Pilots should be writing the job descriptions. Pilots should be doing it all NOT HR
How many times have you seen HR write a job description and you just said to yourself *** is this? No HR person is going to understand what it's like to be sitting in Kandahar when the VHF comms go out so your stuck because you don't have UHF and your only options are to go downtown or stay in the baking heat inside the airplane.
They are not going to understand why you quit your job flying 135 when the owner starts making it 134 1/2 and you had just signed a training bond. So now if you quit they are gonna sue you but if you don't and the Feds find out then...
There are one million examples I'm sure we can all give.
As to my original post regarding work history. I think 10 years is enough. This is my opinion. When and if I apply to a carrier that requires more than I'll do my best to rem it.
Funny comment about the cop thing, actually my memory is not that bad. But when they ask on the app DAY month and year I have a little problem as I would have no idea the exact day or why it would even matter
And moving violations? Well without going to my state agency I would have no idea as well. Since I can't do it online then being on China makes it that much more difficult
5. For those of you who have never worked as an expat in Asia, the Middle East or Africa, you truly have no idea the hardships. It's a VERY big difference when your in a complete craphole knowing your gonna stay one week as opposed to one year.
So in the end, yes I do feel "entitled" to Atleast get a shot at an interview. I've paid my dues above and beyond, there is no real difference between what DAL pilots due on a daily basis then any of the rest of us. We all fly turbine equipment in the weather and for some of us it's in not so nice places.
01-07-2015 | 06:59 AM
#6509
Banned
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 309
Likes: 0
airspeed. You're a real dude and i'd fly with you any day. I'd also put you on my short stack for hiring. I also agree with you on the airline apps thing and how ludicrous it is. Delta/Ual etc are trying to weed out candidates by using a silly app process to measure "precision" and "attention to detail" with. All they need to do is look at whose paid their dues, stuck with this business during hardships, and who really wants the job. To me, that is what an ideal candidate for hire is. Not some dude forced to join a women's or a minorities' organization to beg for a job. That is fake.
Delta/Ual etc are trying to weed out candidates by using a silly app process to measure "precision" and "attention to detail" with. All they need to do is look at whose paid their dues, stuck with this business during hardships, and who really wants the job. To me, that is what an ideal candidate for hire is. Not some dude forced to join a women's or a minorities' organization to beg for a job. That is fake.
01-07-2015 | 07:22 AM
#6510
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 391
Likes: 1
From: Utah Chapter
Look, people can have opinions and that doesn't mean that they are simply negative people just because they do not agree with the process.
Every single airline has or will have pilots that should not be in the cockpit and I'm sure we have all flown with them.
There is no right or wrong way there are just different methods when it comes to screening. Some that myself and I'm sure others on the board do not agree with either.
No one on here knows me, or what I had to go through to get where I'm at. Nor do I expect any awards, pats on the back, or a Wikipedia piece written about me.
For those that are curious who this "holier than thou, entitled, **** don't stink aviator is" I will tell you
I came up the ranks by doing whatever I could to fly after I finished high school. I begged, borrowed and steal (well not really steal) to get my tickets. I was never a CFI as I ran out of money and needed to work.
So I took off jobs such as hotel clerk, pizza boy, etc until I could Segway my way into flying fulltime
My first jobs were traffic watch, flying jumpers, air tours, aerial photography. This was over 20 years ago.
I moved my way up to cargo, charter, then onto corp, VVIP, 121 etc
I didn't have perfect 20/20 so the mil was not an option for me.
Yes, I survived on ramen noodles, lived out of my car in the freezing cold, drove all over the country, did what had to be done.
Drove my 4cyl Datsun that was only running on 3 all the way from the east coast to the Grand Canyon and had to trade a soccer ball, 2 pairs of sneakers, and comic books just to pay for the gas enroute when I was almost there. This was 1997. Things were very diff back then.
Last 8 years been overseas. Living in Europe and some places was great, India, Afghanistan, and others were not....
I've also had 2 aviation companies. So I do know what I'm talking about when it comes to hiring.
First impressions are eveything, but people can blow sunshine on you all day long, no matter how many psych tests you give you can never tell what that person will do in the future
Regarding the psych test, the answers are way too ambiguous. I'll never forget when I did the screening at emirates and we were doing the psych, a guy from South Africa says "they ask me in the computer test do I feel like people are trying to rob me, well of course I do, I live in Johannesburg!!!
So, now I'm here in China. And yes, I absolutely have paid my dues. This has nothing at all with thinking I better or worse than the other guy. And I could really care less about those of you who make your jokes. I find it amusing and I would venture to say most of you who make these stupid comments would Prob be crapping your pants if you have been in some of the situations I've been in. Inside and outside the airplane
So here are my points
1. Play the game. Yes if xyz airline wants you to take a psych test, ask you to play naked twister, whatever....it's the price of admission
2. Everyone is different, just because people don't agree with your opinion doesn't mean they are wrong and you are right. No, I don't believe in psych test and I think they are ridiculous. There I said it. Back in the 1400s the world thought that the earth was flat, and one man proved them wrong.....
3. College degree has nothing to do with flying an airplane. Nothing. There I said that too. IMHO it's great for engineers. But I would highly value experience and interaction in many different environments while flying rather than a piece of paper saying you met the required number of classes
4. Pilots should be interviewing pilots. Pilots should be writing the job descriptions. Pilots should be doing it all NOT HR
How many times have you seen HR write a job description and you just said to yourself *** is this? No HR person is going to understand what it's like to be sitting in Kandahar when the VHF comms go out so your stuck because you don't have UHF and your only options are to go downtown or stay in the baking heat inside the airplane.
They are not going to understand why you quit your job flying 135 when the owner starts making it 134 1/2 and you had just signed a training bond. So now if you quit they are gonna sue you but if you don't and the Feds find out then...
There are one million examples I'm sure we can all give.
As to my original post regarding work history. I think 10 years is enough. This is my opinion. When and if I apply to a carrier that requires more than I'll do my best to rem it.
Funny comment about the cop thing, actually my memory is not that bad. But when they ask on the app DAY month and year I have a little problem as I would have no idea the exact day or why it would even matter
And moving violations? Well without going to my state agency I would have no idea as well. Since I can't do it online then being on China makes it that much more difficult
5. For those of you who have never worked as an expat in Asia, the Middle East or Africa, you truly have no idea the hardships. It's a VERY big difference when your in a complete craphole knowing your gonna stay one week as opposed to one year.
So in the end, yes I do feel "entitled" to Atleast get a shot at an interview. I've paid my dues above and beyond, there is no real difference between what DAL pilots due on a daily basis then any of the rest of us. We all fly turbine equipment in the weather and for some of us it's in not so nice places.
Every single airline has or will have pilots that should not be in the cockpit and I'm sure we have all flown with them.
There is no right or wrong way there are just different methods when it comes to screening. Some that myself and I'm sure others on the board do not agree with either.
No one on here knows me, or what I had to go through to get where I'm at. Nor do I expect any awards, pats on the back, or a Wikipedia piece written about me.
For those that are curious who this "holier than thou, entitled, **** don't stink aviator is" I will tell you
I came up the ranks by doing whatever I could to fly after I finished high school. I begged, borrowed and steal (well not really steal) to get my tickets. I was never a CFI as I ran out of money and needed to work.
So I took off jobs such as hotel clerk, pizza boy, etc until I could Segway my way into flying fulltime
My first jobs were traffic watch, flying jumpers, air tours, aerial photography. This was over 20 years ago.
I moved my way up to cargo, charter, then onto corp, VVIP, 121 etc
I didn't have perfect 20/20 so the mil was not an option for me.
Yes, I survived on ramen noodles, lived out of my car in the freezing cold, drove all over the country, did what had to be done.
Drove my 4cyl Datsun that was only running on 3 all the way from the east coast to the Grand Canyon and had to trade a soccer ball, 2 pairs of sneakers, and comic books just to pay for the gas enroute when I was almost there. This was 1997. Things were very diff back then.
Last 8 years been overseas. Living in Europe and some places was great, India, Afghanistan, and others were not....
I've also had 2 aviation companies. So I do know what I'm talking about when it comes to hiring.
First impressions are eveything, but people can blow sunshine on you all day long, no matter how many psych tests you give you can never tell what that person will do in the future
Regarding the psych test, the answers are way too ambiguous. I'll never forget when I did the screening at emirates and we were doing the psych, a guy from South Africa says "they ask me in the computer test do I feel like people are trying to rob me, well of course I do, I live in Johannesburg!!!
So, now I'm here in China. And yes, I absolutely have paid my dues. This has nothing at all with thinking I better or worse than the other guy. And I could really care less about those of you who make your jokes. I find it amusing and I would venture to say most of you who make these stupid comments would Prob be crapping your pants if you have been in some of the situations I've been in. Inside and outside the airplane
So here are my points
1. Play the game. Yes if xyz airline wants you to take a psych test, ask you to play naked twister, whatever....it's the price of admission
2. Everyone is different, just because people don't agree with your opinion doesn't mean they are wrong and you are right. No, I don't believe in psych test and I think they are ridiculous. There I said it. Back in the 1400s the world thought that the earth was flat, and one man proved them wrong.....
3. College degree has nothing to do with flying an airplane. Nothing. There I said that too. IMHO it's great for engineers. But I would highly value experience and interaction in many different environments while flying rather than a piece of paper saying you met the required number of classes
4. Pilots should be interviewing pilots. Pilots should be writing the job descriptions. Pilots should be doing it all NOT HR
How many times have you seen HR write a job description and you just said to yourself *** is this? No HR person is going to understand what it's like to be sitting in Kandahar when the VHF comms go out so your stuck because you don't have UHF and your only options are to go downtown or stay in the baking heat inside the airplane.
They are not going to understand why you quit your job flying 135 when the owner starts making it 134 1/2 and you had just signed a training bond. So now if you quit they are gonna sue you but if you don't and the Feds find out then...
There are one million examples I'm sure we can all give.
As to my original post regarding work history. I think 10 years is enough. This is my opinion. When and if I apply to a carrier that requires more than I'll do my best to rem it.
Funny comment about the cop thing, actually my memory is not that bad. But when they ask on the app DAY month and year I have a little problem as I would have no idea the exact day or why it would even matter
And moving violations? Well without going to my state agency I would have no idea as well. Since I can't do it online then being on China makes it that much more difficult
5. For those of you who have never worked as an expat in Asia, the Middle East or Africa, you truly have no idea the hardships. It's a VERY big difference when your in a complete craphole knowing your gonna stay one week as opposed to one year.
So in the end, yes I do feel "entitled" to Atleast get a shot at an interview. I've paid my dues above and beyond, there is no real difference between what DAL pilots due on a daily basis then any of the rest of us. We all fly turbine equipment in the weather and for some of us it's in not so nice places.
However, if you think your experiences make you more entitled than thousands of other applicants who have excelled through vastly different but likely as difficult or even tougher challenges... well, that attitude is only one of the obstacles you'll have to overcome if you get invited to the Virginia Ave tryouts.
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