gzsg

I will tell you what, they would be if they thought they could get away with it.

How's 92 hours in the highest position you can hold in New York and never get off the ground?

Come in on Tuesday and leave early Thursday.

When you are in Atlanta swing by the MEC office on Monday or Friday and count pilots heads.

Funny like you, if it were not so sad.

Timbo

Come on Jerry, you know Labor Risk is already off the table, how can Profit Sharing be off the table too??

gzsg

Boyd has the chart. ALPA used it in an email to us.

I will ask him to post it here. It's the one they are using to rush a new cost neutral deal.

Management negotiations strategy 101

Create a crisis and have the lemmings repeat it.

Timbo

Well, even a blind squirrel finds an acorn once in a while. But the Hurricane Katrina's that have hit our industry were not forecast, i.e. 9-11, Gulf War 1, the market crash of 2008, etc.

However, what WAS easily predicted, ever since American Airlines brought their B scale on line, was that it would ripple through the industry. It's ALWAYS been a Monkey See, Monkey Do industry. As other carriers went bankrupt all around us, we were busy giving away 32% of our pay, signing LOA 46, to STAY OUT OF BANKRUPTCY!! When going into bankruptcy was "The Plan" all along!

You didn't need to be a genius with a crystal ball to see what was going to happen to the rest of us, when US Air and UAL went bankrupt and started flushing pensions down the toilet, yet too many of our Top Men at DALPA were in total denial.

"They would never do that! We have a Bankruptcy Protection Letter, they can't touch our pensions!"

gloopy

I agree that fixing the hundreds of DC-9-10 jets that are outsourced hurts everyone involved and the solution has to come from us.

There are already a lot of DCI elements in our scope clause as well as in management's unilateral treatment of the issue. Mass quantities of preferential interviews, hundreds of guaranteed flows, potentially unlimited "direct to Delta" hiring (like a flow but without the quid of a flow down), DCI scope clauses signed directly with DAL management (something CMR and ASA were told was strictly forbidden by the NMB to even inquire about when they were WO's) and disgusting secret little "vault letters".

DL is snapping up every mil pilot it can find right now, which is great, but try being a non DCI civ pilot on the outside wanting in. Very few are getting a chance right now. Just how much more DCI preference should there be? And that's just DCI preference and guarantees at DL. DCI pilots can and constantly do flock to OAL as well.

And what form should it take? The SSP candidates I think are seeing a much higher success rate than originally. I heard the lower numbers early on were because pilots somehow got the asinine impession that it was a semi formal rubber stamp. While I can't wrap my head around that sorry excuse, perhaps there's some truth to it. But even if someone thought it was easy, for a quantum career leap like that worth millions more than your present position, who wouldn't even bother to prepare?

Anyway PCL is the last airline that should receive DL preference for reduced large RJ's (even assuming we actually prioritize that…we've been told "we hear you loud and clear and the big issue is money!" *sigh*) PCL would likely be the last place they were parked/transferred first because PCL pilots have DAL scope for those jets, SKYW has a major reset coming up and other feeders can't staff what they currently have either.

Even if the scope line moves south and some PCL jets are parked, it would probably be because they couldn't staff them either. In which case its pretty hard to make a claim for preference based on "losing" something you couldn't do anyway. And from a management perspective it makes even less sense. Fix your staffing shortage by moving planes you can't fly there to here, then hiring even more pilots from there to here, increasing what you can't fly there.

Unless there is a version of such a theoretical transfer that would almost instantly move the line and reacquire large swaths of DC-9-10 flying from DCI to mainline, I don't see much more DCI preference being given by either side. Even if that did end up happening, you better get your ducks in a row over there and not radically overestimate your leverage like CMR/ASA did last time. New hires at the bottom of the list is by far the most realistic high water mark. The fantasy ceiling is a staple, but that is extremely unlikely. Even a tiny theoretical potential risk of one single number more than that for one single pilot and the entire deal would collapse under its own unworkability.

tsquare

No argument there. I flew a trip with Mark Mischker (God bless him), and he was very adamant about all of that. It was a very interesting discussion we had on the way to/from CAI about all of that. And I have no doubt that when Leo and the thieves set up the SERPS, that BK was in the works. None... whatsoever. dALPA should have raised hell that very instant, because the blueprint was laid at those other airlines for that very thing, yet seemed to go unnoticed. But by the time it got to us, it was way too late.

gzsg

[QUOTE=gzsg;1694547]Boyd has the chart. ALPA used it in an email to us.

I will ask him to post it here. It's the one they are using to rush a new cost neutral deal.

Management negotiations strategy 101

Create a crisis and have the lemmings repeat it.[/QUOT

Chart was in Spring Wiget page 36. A clear attempt to sell fear and nonsense. Why would they post this?

It was not Boyd's chart. It was Boyd's the entire MEC.

Timbo

[QUOTE=gzsg;1694674] If you promise nothing, it's much easier to deliver.

That's also why we will NEVER see the survey results.

slowplay

Seems you're the one selling fear and nonsense, Jerry.

That chart had something at the bottom that you're not reporting. There's a statement that reads:

"None of this should diminish the sacrifices we all made during the "lost decade," but the trend is absolutely positive for us right now. The Delta pilots, represented by ALPA, are unquestionably ready to take advantage of tomorrow's opportunities."

Quit lowering expectations. Or are you here to "create a crisis"? Whose lemming are you to repeat this on multiple forums?

Alan Shore

[QUOTE=Timbo;1694705]I'm a big boy. I don't need promises, other than a commitment to leave no stone unturned in my reps' efforts to bring me as much in gains as possible.

If you really believe that to be the reason the MEC does not release survey results, call your rep out on it and see what he says.