Details on Delta TA
06-13-2015 | 05:01 PM
#8532
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: May 2015
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From: Power top
There's no way profit sharing doesn't get dinged, it's got Wall Street's knickers in a knot. Monetize the damn stuff in vacation, training and per diem. It's pretty simple.
And don't throw the FO's under the bus with the LCA bidding. Figure out a better way to skin that cat. The medical section is infringing on the pilots that don't abuse the system. You could sit down and fix it in a week.
And don't throw the FO's under the bus with the LCA bidding. Figure out a better way to skin that cat. The medical section is infringing on the pilots that don't abuse the system. You could sit down and fix it in a week.
06-13-2015 | 05:06 PM
#8533
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,457
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From: LAX ERA
That would be management's decision. In the meantime, we cash profit sharing checks until the NMB reminds management that bargaining in bad faith is a violation of the Raileay Labor Act.
Then we prepare the next grievance for when they are yet again out of compliance with the Euro JV.
Then we enjoy our privacy rights when sick. Then enjoy not having all the other concessions.
At some point, IMO, logic dictates that management will want to return. There will be too much pain for them not to.
Carl
Then we prepare the next grievance for when they are yet again out of compliance with the Euro JV.
Then we enjoy our privacy rights when sick. Then enjoy not having all the other concessions.
At some point, IMO, logic dictates that management will want to return. There will be too much pain for them not to.
Carl
06-13-2015 | 05:07 PM
#8535
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Joined: Sep 2008
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From: Kickin’ Back
The reason I ask is those items really aren't money items. I think where the rubber meets the road they are principle issues that flight ops have hard on over. More likely to succeed there versus significant money issues. I think we have very little odds of success, considering the NMB and TVM when it comes to money.
Denny
06-13-2015 | 05:09 PM
#8537
New Hire
Joined: Jun 2015
Posts: 5
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I've been lurking and can't keep out of this any longer. The talk is that pay is the only good thing in this TA? IMO, the pay is average at best and also dangerous in the B scale it presents on the E190. DALPA is promoting how the E190 will be 3.5% above JB in 2016 and 9.8% above JB in 2018. How about a comparison of JB and DL rates on the 320? On the 320, we will be 19.8% higher than JB in 2016 and 26.6% higher than JB in 2018! In my book, that adds up to an epic fail on the E190 rates. As it stands now, no one senior to 10,500 will have any interest in the E190. If the E190 rate was 19.8% higher than JB in 2016, the DL rate would be $218. At that rate, it would sit just below the 717 rate and be a real advance in pay over a FO position.
To me, the presentation by DALPA about E190 pay is just another example of an incomplete truth. I don't see how anyone can defend the E190 pay. It may be of no significance to many, but if the rates were paid in the same ratio to JB pay as the 320, I bet the E190 would get interest from seniority 6000 and below. A plane with interest from half the seniority list is a real gain. As it stands, we will certify a B scale that later could be used to establish 320 pay.
We need to organize and stop this now! No, no no.
To me, the presentation by DALPA about E190 pay is just another example of an incomplete truth. I don't see how anyone can defend the E190 pay. It may be of no significance to many, but if the rates were paid in the same ratio to JB pay as the 320, I bet the E190 would get interest from seniority 6000 and below. A plane with interest from half the seniority list is a real gain. As it stands, we will certify a B scale that later could be used to establish 320 pay.
We need to organize and stop this now! No, no no.
06-13-2015 | 05:14 PM
#8538
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 403
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Ok. That wasn't so bad. So if I'm reading this right we will likely have to win this going through the NMB. Timeline probably undefined. That's the risk really I suppose. Do we get enough in a timeline that doesn't eat up any gains we achieve. I think we can all agree that beyond 18 months the numbers get real ugly. We will have to hope that the NMB agrees that our position is sound and management's position is unreasonable.
Short of that, we need to see capitulation from the company. We haven't seen capitulation from the others currently engaged with NMB. SWA really hurting right now from a TVM perspective.
Do SWA, UPS, and FedEx move if we shoot this down? Why would they? Could we join them waiting for someone to push the bar upward. On the other hand, if we ratify will their managements commit to the new standard? More importantly would the NMB now see our industry leading contract as the new reasonable position? If so, we could see those carriers break the NMB hold and advance. This would bode well of course for us 2.5 years down the road when we are back at it again.
Thoughts?
Short of that, we need to see capitulation from the company. We haven't seen capitulation from the others currently engaged with NMB. SWA really hurting right now from a TVM perspective.
Do SWA, UPS, and FedEx move if we shoot this down? Why would they? Could we join them waiting for someone to push the bar upward. On the other hand, if we ratify will their managements commit to the new standard? More importantly would the NMB now see our industry leading contract as the new reasonable position? If so, we could see those carriers break the NMB hold and advance. This would bode well of course for us 2.5 years down the road when we are back at it again.
Thoughts?
Who cares?
Who cares, who cares, who cares?!
WE ARE BETTER OFF WITH OUR CURRENT CONTRACT! I don't care about time value of money, if the job I worked so hard to attain goes by the wayside as this TA allows Delta to be dismantled from the inside out. Without mentioning pay rates, tell us how the rest of this ridiculous TA happened. Why in a million years would we give our MEC CHAIRMAN the right to allow China Eastern to slap the Delta paint scheme all over their wide bodies? Why would we sign up for sick leave harassment program that most Fortune 500 managements would be embarrassed to even propose? These questions take all the air out of the worn out DALPA TVM argument from 2012. You guys need to think of something new. The sad thing is that there is nothing else good in this TA to crow about, and that's why I think the Delta pilots will finally see through the DALPA smokescreen and vote no this time.
I would LOVE to get parked by the NMB. Know why? Because we could continue under our current contract (yeah, even C2012 is good compared to TA2015). I will keep collecting my profit sharing checks, earning good pay, and avoid all the traps that Management and DALPA are laying in front of us. Plus, it might allow us time to vote in new representation...if the RLA allows that?
06-13-2015 | 05:17 PM
#8540
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 23,286
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From: Light Chop
At the MEC meeting the negotiating committee put up a bunch of slides on our sick leave use and its change over time. I'm working from notes, so I apologize for any errors. Since 2012 sick leave usage is up 30%. The top 20% of sick leave users that don't go on disability use 50% of our sick leave. 5% of our pilots use more than 40 days per year and never go TD or LTD.
They also addressed that demographically our aging pilot group should only use about 1% more, not 30% more. There has been a pilot behavior change. UAL and AMR's sick leave has decreased (no data provided) but both those properties have substantially more punitive sick leave provisions than we do, beginning with only 60 hours of accrual.
They said because of increased costs this is one of management's top priorities.
I hope one of the notepads covers this, as sick leave was just a few slides in a big deck.
They also addressed that demographically our aging pilot group should only use about 1% more, not 30% more. There has been a pilot behavior change. UAL and AMR's sick leave has decreased (no data provided) but both those properties have substantially more punitive sick leave provisions than we do, beginning with only 60 hours of accrual.
They said because of increased costs this is one of management's top priorities.
I hope one of the notepads covers this, as sick leave was just a few slides in a big deck.
As to the data the union had about sick leave, it supposedly matches what the company was saying at the LCA meeting. To me, the Counion (company + union) are telling us as a group we are in the wrong and we must make a remedy in this contract with a bloody red Section 14.
The data, isn't convincing to me, from either source, because it has a tremendous amount of "you got to trust us on this..." And that shouldn't fly.
Now my understanding talking to someone from that vaunted 4th floor is that the company is angry about a sub group cashing out (abusing) their sick leave in a rather blatant and glorious way to any objective person but to the company's frustration it is all verified with a Doctor. So they want to get around that.
And in doing so, they want to screw us all. People are going to start flying sick. Things are going to happen. What was that story about the DALPA vs Company meeting where the company pilot said "I expect them to fly sick." Looks like we're going to do just that.
I'd prefer DALPA to just reply: Kiss off. Pilots get sick, leave them alone because you and the FAA and the NTSB will hang them out to dry if something happens while flying sick.
From the looks of it the Counion is just going to hit us with this for no gain. Because there is no way 8633 - PS is a result of bargaining credits from Section 14. So why is NC doing this?
Again, thanks for posting what you saw.
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