Go Back  Airline Pilot Central Forums > Airline Pilot Forums > Regional > Endeavor Air
Any "Latest & Greatest" about Endeavor? >

Any "Latest & Greatest" about Endeavor?

Notices
Endeavor Air Regional Airline

Any "Latest & Greatest" about Endeavor?

Old 04-18-2017, 03:17 PM
  #12941  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Feb 2016
Posts: 365
Default

I never agree with Jesuit (well, usually not. Seems the closer he gets to the mothership the more I do agree) but its a simple economic concept. If they give us more money for say... retirement... that we can use down the road and will grow that should outweigh $2/hour.

But hey, what do I know. I am a proud product of our public education system.
AnotherWriter is offline  
Old 04-18-2017, 03:20 PM
  #12942  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Nov 2016
Posts: 891
Default

Originally Posted by AnotherWriter View Post
I never agree with Jesuit (well, usually not. Seems the closer he gets to the mothership the more I do agree) but its a simple economic concept. If they give us more money for say... retirement... that we can use down the road and will grow that should outweigh $2/hour.

But hey, what do I know. I am a proud product of our public education system.
Where do you get $2 per hour? The number I'm getting right from the union is no retention payment and a $19 per hour increase. That is a $6.55 pay cut at guarantee. $5895 per year less that you'll be making.
Green Needles is offline  
Old 04-18-2017, 03:21 PM
  #12943  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Feb 2016
Posts: 365
Default

Originally Posted by Green Needles View Post
Where do you get $2 per hour? The number I'm getting right from the union is no retention payment and a $19 per hour increase. That is a $6.55 pay cut at guarantee. $5895 per year less that you'll be making.
Honestly, I made it up.

My point still stands though.
AnotherWriter is offline  
Old 04-18-2017, 03:33 PM
  #12944  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Sep 2016
Posts: 480
Default

Originally Posted by Green Needles View Post
Where do you get $2 per hour? The number I'm getting right from the union is no retention payment and a $19 per hour increase. That is a $6.55 pay cut at guarantee. $5895 per year less that you'll be making.
We've had these discussions a million times and you and others still play stupid. The money you get now has no 401k matching. Furthermore you're being paid vacation and sick pay at this low rate. If they were to increase the pay dollar for 75 hour on the retention bonus you're total compensation goes up linearly because sick and vacation pay isnt free, 401k matching isn't free either.

If you just want the retention, FINE, but it is running out. If Delta decides to park the stupid 200s at the same time they won't need to worry about keeping the retention because you'll lose more than half the pilot group in a wave of about 80 per month.

Maybe theres some wiggle room on 19 bucks an hour vs 22 bucks an hour. Or 23 bucks an hour. But 25.50 an hour (or whatever 23k/12/75 is) is a pay increase ABOVE the retention to match 401k/sick/vacation for everyone.

Maybe the union could work out 25 bucks an hour but vacation and sick time pays out at old rate and your only match 401k to that lower hourly figure. Then youd at least get the extra to show up for work and 150% matching but payroll can't pay you correctly now through incompetence and lack of contractual understanding.

That's why i keep saying what I'm saying. It's your ball and your court. Dont make stuff up is all I'm shouting about. 19or20 an hour isnt a paycut for total compensation to a pilot.
JesuitValen is offline  
Old 04-18-2017, 03:35 PM
  #12945  
Gets Weekends Off
 
prex8390's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Feb 2011
Posts: 2,073
Default

Originally Posted by FODhopper View Post
NO

Filler,
I guess the point was I knew the answer to my own question, so many kods wanting to flow to American when I'd hold out for the other two carriers if I knew they would call eventually.
prex8390 is offline  
Old 04-18-2017, 03:40 PM
  #12946  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Feb 2016
Posts: 365
Default

Originally Posted by prex8390 View Post
I guess the point was I knew the answer to my own question, so many kods wanting to flow to American when I'd hold out for the other two carriers if I knew they would call eventually.
And I think as long we don't have multi DUIs, axe murders, or touch screens in the cockpit (I feel like that is about on level with the other two, don't you?), you'll probably make it to your carrier of choice here in the next few years.
AnotherWriter is offline  
Old 04-18-2017, 03:58 PM
  #12947  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Mar 2015
Posts: 126
Default

Anything less than what we are making now is a pay cut. It's pretty simple. If less money is going into my bank account every two weeks then I consider that making less money. Call it short-sighted, but that's what the regionals are.

Regional pilots aren't supposed to be 50+ years old worrying about 30 year pay scales. They should be 20 somethings trying to pay off student loans. Hourly pay is god, and the 10+ year guys should have absolutely zero incentive to stay.

These negotiations should be completely focused on 0-5 year guys and forget everyone else. Selfish? Yes. Smart move by the airline for the times we are in? Yes.
musketeer is offline  
Old 04-18-2017, 03:59 PM
  #12948  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Nov 2016
Posts: 891
Default

Originally Posted by JesuitValen View Post
We've had these discussions a million times and you and others still play stupid. The money you get now has no 401k matching. Furthermore you're being paid vacation and sick pay at this low rate. If they were to increase the pay dollar for 75 hour on the retention bonus you're total compensation goes up linearly because sick and vacation pay isnt free, 401k matching isn't free either.

If you just want the retention, FINE, but it is running out. If Delta decides to park the stupid 200s at the same time they won't need to worry about keeping the retention because you'll lose more than half the pilot group in a wave of about 80 per month.

Maybe theres some wiggle room on 19 bucks an hour vs 22 bucks an hour. Or 23 bucks an hour. But 25.50 an hour (or whatever 23k/12/75 is) is a pay increase ABOVE the retention to match 401k/sick/vacation for everyone.

Maybe the union could work out 25 bucks an hour but vacation and sick time pays out at old rate and your only match 401k to that lower hourly figure. Then youd at least get the extra to show up for work and 150% matching but payroll can't pay you correctly now through incompetence and lack of contractual understanding.

That's why i keep saying what I'm saying. It's your ball and your court. Dont make stuff up is all I'm shouting about. 19or20 an hour isnt a paycut for total compensation to a pilot.
Struck a nerve there did I? A pay cut is a pay cut, no matter how you sell it. You're sounding like the shady airlines that include health insurance in their fuzzy math for a "total compensation" to sell the new guys on. You say the 401k has no matching right now? That's completely false. Also, you only get that full amount if you are here five years to be fully vested, otherwise a percentage is gone!

Sick and vacation is paid at a low rate, but I reiterate: sick time is worthless unless you take it. You can have thousands of hours accrued in sick time, but when you leave the company, you know what you get for it? Absolutely nothing! If we were to get paid for the balance of our sick time when you leave the company, that would make a huge difference, because sick time would then be money in the bank.

Yes there are more things that factor into total compensation, but if your salary (paycheck) goes down, that's a pay cut, no matter how you want to propagandize it.

New guys need to know the plain unvarnished truth, not just what recruiters are telling them. If someone still wants to come here knowing a pay cut is likely and we have no career progression, that's fine. They just need to know that coming in.

While there isn't a pilot shortage, Mesa can still hire , the company needs pilots. That puts us in a very good place to negotiate.
Green Needles is offline  
Old 04-18-2017, 04:12 PM
  #12949  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Sep 2016
Posts: 480
Default

Originally Posted by Green Needles View Post
Struck a nerve there did I? A pay cut is a pay cut, no matter how you sell it. You're sounding like the shady airlines that include health insurance in their fuzzy math for a "total compensation" to sell the new guys on. You say the 401k has no matching right now? That's completely false. Also, you only get that full amount if you are here five years to be fully vested, otherwise a percentage is gone!

Sick and vacation is paid at a low rate, but I reiterate: sick time is worthless unless you take it. You can have thousands of hours accrued in sick time, but when you leave the company, you know what you get for it? Absolutely nothing! If we were to get paid for the balance of our sick time when you leave the company, that would make a huge difference, because sick time would then be money in the bank.

Yes there are more things that factor into total compensation, but if your salary (paycheck) goes down, that's a pay cut, no matter how you want to propagandize it.

New guys need to know the plain unvarnished truth, not just what recruiters are telling them. If someone still wants to come here knowing a pay cut is likely and we have no career progression, that's fine. They just need to know that coming in.

While there isn't a pilot shortage, Mesa can still hire , the company needs pilots. That puts us in a very good place to negotiate.
Going backwards to forwards, the classes here are near full, so you're not in a good place.

I agree theres no career progression, and that i hope guys leave for American regionals to prove the point. That'll give you leverage.

In my scenario you're paycheck goes up, your retention goes away. If you are on reserve for a whole year and never go above guarantee, for that very small percentage of the pilot population here, they will have a cut of wages. Commuting isnt that bad, but that's a choice to stay in dtw and msp at this point and it has a penalty either way.

You're right, sick time may not get used.

Your retention is not matched on 401k, thats what i said and it's true.
JesuitValen is offline  
Old 04-18-2017, 04:13 PM
  #12950  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Joined APC: Sep 2016
Posts: 480
Default

Originally Posted by musketeer View Post
These negotiations should be completely focused on 0-5 year guys and forget everyone else. Selfish? Yes. Smart move by the airline for the times we are in? Yes.
LOL. Awesome. So paycut for everyone 6-30 years?

(Also that's fine i won't be here, but that's a new strategy)

Last edited by JesuitValen; 04-18-2017 at 04:28 PM.
JesuitValen is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
WARich
Delta
11220
06-10-2020 08:42 AM
StraightShooter
Endeavor Air
121
06-18-2014 11:02 AM
Crash
Major
3437
01-30-2013 07:51 PM
shua757
Major
2
02-24-2009 07:44 AM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Thread Tools
Search this Thread