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Any "Latest & Greatest" about Endeavor?

Old 12-13-2017, 12:01 PM
  #17631  
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Originally Posted by HighFlight View Post
Why is that?
All this hdg/nav mode talk leads me to believe some folks and the pubs don't quite have it down. 3 close parallel runways running simultaneous departures equates to tower and departure controllers with very narrow expectations of lateral navigation. NAV mode off the runway is their expectation. Autopilot use on every RNAV departure out of ATL is also RECOMMENDED in all caps and bunny quotes and if played backwards in slow speed actually means MANDATORY.

Not smarter than anyone else here, just experienced in ATL.
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Old 12-13-2017, 12:05 PM
  #17632  
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Originally Posted by Flogger View Post
I think I've figured out why the ATL RNAV departures didn't go so well for a while.

Yup. Coming to same conclusion.
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Old 12-13-2017, 03:33 PM
  #17633  
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Originally Posted by Flogger View Post
NAV mode off the runway is their expectation.
Disagree slightly. If 200 drivers aren't pushing NAV mode until 400 ft, it is no different than the 900 because as previously mentioned the 900 won't actually track the FMS until 400 ft anyway.

Now that we've all discussed our systems knowledge at length and suitably impressed everyone... the reason for the RNAV deviations in ATL were more likely because A) people weren't verifying the runway on the MFD during their Before Takeoff verification procedure/ brief and/or B) not verifying the mode annuciation on the PFD after selecting Nav mode to ensure it took.

Why this showed up in ATL this time when we've been doing RNAV departures for years I have no idea, maybe guys were intimidated by Atlanta. Once you get used to it, it's one of the easiest airports in the system.

Now we need an LOA or something controversial to discuss!

Did anyone else see the memo from HR? i would have thought Flight Attendents would get a bigger raise than 1.25%, they need it.
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Old 12-13-2017, 05:09 PM
  #17634  
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I'm probably not as experienced as you in ATL, but I doubt our discussion about when to engage had anything to do with our initial problems. I fly 75% of my departures by hand, and have never had a problem. Also tried the RNAV yesterday at normal speed (gear up/SPEED mode/NAV mode) as well as NAV at 400'... no difference. Well, maybe half to one second to begin the turn is about all. Nothing ATC would ever notice.

I'd wager the RNAV issues were due to N/S runway changes that were not entered into the FMS. Was behind one of our guys yesterday who got called out for not being on track, they were given a heading shortly after takeoff to correct. Pilot said he was in NAV mode, which leads me to believe wrong runway.

Originally Posted by Flogger View Post
All this hdg/nav mode talk leads me to believe some folks and the pubs don't quite have it down. 3 close parallel runways running simultaneous departures equates to tower and departure controllers with very narrow expectations of lateral navigation. NAV mode off the runway is their expectation. Autopilot use on every RNAV departure out of ATL is also RECOMMENDED in all caps and bunny quotes and if played backwards in slow speed actually means MANDATORY.

Not smarter than anyone else here, just experienced in ATL.
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Old 12-13-2017, 06:20 PM
  #17635  
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Originally Posted by HighFlight View Post
I'm probably not as experienced as you in ATL, but I doubt our discussion about when to engage had anything to do with our initial problems. I fly 75% of my departures by hand, and have never had a problem. Also tried the RNAV yesterday at normal speed (gear up/SPEED mode/NAV mode) as well as NAV at 400'... no difference. Well, maybe half to one second to begin the turn is about all. Nothing ATC would ever notice.

I'd wager the RNAV issues were due to N/S runway changes that were not entered into the FMS. Was behind one of our guys yesterday who got called out for not being on track, they were given a heading shortly after takeoff to correct. Pilot said he was in NAV mode, which leads me to believe wrong runway.
We had it before out of DFW. It mainly happened after a runway change. Now our checklists are designed to prevent that from happening. Do the runway change items and verify the departure runway in the before takeoff check list and you shouldnít have any problems
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Old 12-14-2017, 12:05 AM
  #17636  
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Originally Posted by Flogger View Post
All this hdg/nav mode talk leads me to believe some folks and the pubs don't quite have it down. 3 close parallel runways running simultaneous departures equates to tower and departure controllers with very narrow expectations of lateral navigation. NAV mode off the runway is their expectation. Autopilot use on every RNAV departure out of ATL is also RECOMMENDED in all caps and bunny quotes and if played backwards in slow speed actually means MANDATORY.

Not smarter than anyone else here, just experienced in ATL.
This mandatory autopilot for RNAV departures nonsense is ridiculous. Ever ridden up front on mainline out of Atlanta or Kennedy? Those guys/gals hand fly RNAV departures all the time.

Some guys absolutely freak out if the autopilot isnít on for RNAV departures. I just donít get it.
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Old 12-14-2017, 01:04 AM
  #17637  
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Originally Posted by HarlsBarkley View Post
This mandatory autopilot for RNAV departures nonsense is ridiculous. Ever ridden up front on mainline out of Atlanta or Kennedy? Those guys/gals hand fly RNAV departures all the time.

Some guys absolutely freak out if the autopilot isnít on for RNAV departures. I just donít get it.
Maybe your hand flying skills are getting everyone sick?
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Old 12-14-2017, 03:03 AM
  #17638  
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Originally Posted by HarlsBarkley View Post
This mandatory autopilot for RNAV departures nonsense is ridiculous. Ever ridden up front on mainline out of Atlanta or Kennedy? Those guys/gals hand fly RNAV departures all the time.

Some guys absolutely freak out if the autopilot isnít on for RNAV departures. I just donít get it.
That has not been my experience while Jumpseating on mainline. Most guys turn it on pretty quick. It doesnít matter what you do. Just make sure that you have the correct sid and runway in the fms and fly it accordingly.
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Old 12-14-2017, 04:03 AM
  #17639  
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Originally Posted by HarlsBarkley View Post
This mandatory autopilot for RNAV departures nonsense is ridiculous. Ever ridden up front on mainline out of Atlanta or Kennedy? Those guys/gals hand fly RNAV departures all the time.

Some guys absolutely freak out if the autopilot isnít on for RNAV departures. I just donít get it.
Most of the time Iíll hand fly a SID until weíre at 250kts. I just let the other guy know. If itís a high workload I wonít. Like someone else said as long as you have the right runway in there shouldnít be an issue. I can only guess that the guys who freak out about not having the autopilot on during a SID has been burned before by someone who didnít fly it correct.
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Old 12-14-2017, 05:45 PM
  #17640  
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Originally Posted by Blueskies21 View Post
Disagree slightly. If 200 drivers aren't pushing NAV mode until 400 ft, it is no different than the 900 because as previously mentioned the 900 won't actually track the FMS until 400 ft anyway.

Now that we've all discussed our systems knowledge at length and suitably impressed everyone... the reason for the RNAV deviations in ATL were more likely because A) people weren't verifying the runway on the MFD during their Before Takeoff verification procedure/ brief and/or B) not verifying the mode annuciation on the PFD after selecting Nav mode to ensure it took.

Why this showed up in ATL this time when we've been doing RNAV departures for years I have no idea, maybe guys were intimidated by Atlanta. Once you get used to it, it's one of the easiest airports in the system.

Now we need an LOA or something controversial to discuss!

Did anyone else see the memo from HR? i would have thought Flight Attendents would get a bigger raise than 1.25%, they need it.
Actually if you wait to hit nav mode in the 900 you remain in TO mode which then takes the snapshot of your heading weight off wheels. If you select Nav right after liftoff, it goes into HDG mode (tracking the heading bug which should be runway heading) until 400 AGL then captures FMS and follows that track.
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