Sam Pool Email

Subscribe
7  13  14  15  16  17  18  19  20  21 
Page 17 of 25
Go to
Sam Pool Email
Quote: There's a fundamental misunderstanding here I think. Envoy isn't competing with American Eagle in 2008 to attract pilots, it's competing with Endeavor, Republic, etc. in 2018. It will ultimately need to offer a competitive package, regardless of whether anyone in the pilot group feels that new FO's should be punished so they "can know what it's like."


There is a waiting period for a class date for the top 2 “regional” carriers with waiting period of 3 months. Just for a slot to start class. Not much leverage there to request a “competitive” package, unless the company wants something really bad.

1. Endeavor- classes full till July
2. Envoy- is only taking DEC immediately and filling remaining slots as needed with Cadet & RTP folks, and some are waiting a few months out for a class date.

So please tell me how you would negotiate with management that they NEED to be competitive with Endeavor, Republic, AWC, PDT, PSA.
Reply
Quote: In my opinion, the settlement and LOAs were a pragmatic surrender. I was disappointed at how weak the remedy was, as an additional 4 flows/month is not enough. The pattern of the company violating the contract continues.

Everyone junior to a flowing pilot will benefit from slightly accelerated flow and moving up in seniority and less stagnation (This helps even junior lifers, but not the senior lifers).

I know pilots who have waited over a year from captain award to receiving captain pay, due to no fault of their own. They were at the mercy of the company. I am glad this was remedied for the new guys so they will have it better than those before them.

There is a lot of bickering on this forum. It's great to be angry, but we need pilot unity. THE UNION IS ONLY AS STRONG AS ITS MEMBERS. If you are angry or want to make things better in the future, PLEASE GET INVOLVED. Attend union meetings. Vote in ALL UNION ELECTIONS, no matter how minor you think they are. Instead of whining about the guys who have "one foot out the door," get involved and run in the next election for your local LEC status rep position (once you are off probation). Start a recall of your reps if you think you can do it better. Contact your reps and direct them to recall the negotiating committee. Volunteer for the Strategic Planning Committee. Volunteer for the negotiating committee. The union especially needs junior pilots who will likely be around for the next 3-10 years.

I would love to see all this bickering and anger redirected into productive union activity.
I agree with pretty much everything you said. I'm not sure people realize the non pragmatic way would have resulted in a full arbitration that would have stretched out 12-18 months with no guarantee of a better outcome. It's entirely possible that the the metering would have been ruled favorably to the company and we lose whatever leverage we had to increase flow numbers over the next 18-24 months.

Instead,
-current FOs get CA pay at award now which could be anywhere from 3-6 months of much better pay

-positive space commutes and paid hotels for 3 months which would cover a good chunk of the time you're in LGA until you could hold ORD/MIA/DFW which any base can be held within a year on the 145 currently

-FOs that get displaced off trips for time building after monthly bidding is done have no reassignment responsibility. The pilots between 800-950 hours lose out but the guys below 800 hours will still get to play the reserve bidding game

-everyone beyond the protected pilots get 3-6 months shaved off their flow date since 4/month and 22 additional settlement slots adds up to quite a bit over a two year period

-50 hours of required CA IOE will lead to needing more LCAs which will also make the position much more junior since increased flow will wipe out most of our current LCAs sooner since the vast majority of them are protected pilots. This will increase pilots pay due to the override or build up resumes if someone wants to get hired somewhere else

Those are all pretty descent gets for a relatively narrow grievance in exchange for creating a pathway for DECs that won't cause another round of cascading grievances and pushing guys from 800 hours over the 950 hour mark. That current practice of bidding FO reserve might be fleeting once the staffing surplus on FOs causes guys to fly more on reserve anyway

I'm all for increasing CA pay scales and pushing some reserve rule reform but this probably wasn't the place to make those gains. Market conditions and tighter pilot staffing over the next couple of years will dictate that better than this grievance settlement.
Reply
A lot of butthurt coming from millenial FOs who haven't had to sit years on RSV, get no bonus, go through the ABCs in the school house, get furloughed or go through bankruptcy. Someone get them a cry closet. #HereIFlowNow.
Reply
Quote: Wow. The insanity of it all. No one is advocating we got crapped on so you should get crapped on too. Never has a single pilot group got so much and claims to be getting the short end of the stick so often. What punishment have you received??? 20k bonus, third year FO pay, low reserve time, sky rocketing seniority number, 175 (for some), CA pay when awarded the upgrade, unlimited commuter hotels for three months, A12 passes, FO retention bonuses, 5-7 year flow...... come on!!!! What else do you want?? The PP group got a few thousand dollars and that's it. The PP group has received NOTHING that you have not received. Yet you continue to get all the benefits of the current market.
Yes! Thank You!
Reply
New ALPA seniority list is out and my projected flow date moved up exactly 3 months. Not sure why people are throwing out 5 and 6 months out there
Reply
Quote: New ALPA seniority list is out and my projected flow date moved up exactly 3 months. Not sure why people are throwing out 5 and 6 months out there
I haven't seen 6 but I threw out 5. Anyone that will be forecasted to flow after December that now flows before December will get an extra month bump.
Reply
Quote: New ALPA seniority list is out and my projected flow date moved up exactly 3 months. Not sure why people are throwing out 5 and 6 months out there
My GUESS is that the alpa projection doesnt include the 'catch up' flows. Too hard for me to analyze on my phone but i did see that my date changed by 4 months.
Reply
Quote: There is a waiting period for a class date for the top 2 “regional” carriers with waiting period of 3 months. Just for a slot to start class. Not much leverage there to request a “competitive” package, unless the company wants something really bad.

1. Endeavor- classes full till July
2. Envoy- is only taking DEC immediately and filling remaining slots as needed with Cadet & RTP folks, and some are waiting a few months out for a class date.

So please tell me how you would negotiate with management that they NEED to be competitive with Endeavor, Republic, AWC, PDT, PSA.
Wait until the fat part of the list upgrades and they start hurting for newhires again if they want to grow, then just ask I guess. This doesn't seem that complicated.
Reply
Quote: I haven't seen 6 but I threw out 5. Anyone that will be forecasted to flow after December that now flows before December will get an extra month bump.
Concept sounds right but if so, my date is more like an 8 mo improvement. 4 mo on the new plan... Plus 4 decembers. That seem quite high.
Reply
We need a separate union and split this company up. The protected pilots and lifers can give the dues they pay to ALPA for shiny picket signs for JetBlue, WestJet and Frontier. Well over half the seniority list has been at Envoy not American Eagle flying Jetstreams and ATRs for 2 years or less. The protected pilots calling the majority of this pilot roster coddled children shows how inept and inept the contract they voted in is. Well over half the list is being punished for the gain of the protected pilots, time for the coddled children as I guess we are called to do something, and since we have the numbers it shouldnt be hard.
Reply
7  13  14  15  16  17  18  19  20  21 
Page 17 of 25
Go to