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05-09-2018 | 05:17 AM
#131
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 1,547
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From: Resigned
There's a fundamental misunderstanding here I think. Envoy isn't competing with American Eagle in 2008 to attract pilots, it's competing with Endeavor, Republic, etc. in 2018. It will ultimately need to offer a competitive package, regardless of whether anyone in the pilot group feels that new FO's should be punished so they "can know what it's like."
05-09-2018 | 05:22 AM
#132
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 1,609
Likes: 0
While I generally feel this was a positive for the PP’s and soon to upgrade FO’s I must admit I hate the argument of “well I went through hell so you should be grateful you didn’t and just shut the hell up”. This is a thinly veiled excuse for you choosing to stay in an environment that wasn’t friendly to you. I would not be here right now if the advertised flow was 8 years, plain and simple. I switched careers to come to this for the very fact the time to majors was supposed to come way down.
Anyway, I appreciate that you stuck it out, I wouldn’t have that’s for sure, but please don’t project your frustration for having to do it on those that are fighting for the betterment of all the pilots.
Remember it’s also the low time guys, older guys switching careers and the people that didn’t slug it out through the crap that are pushing you up and out of here.
Much respect all around and hopefully this isn’t taken personally.
Anyway, I appreciate that you stuck it out, I wouldn’t have that’s for sure, but please don’t project your frustration for having to do it on those that are fighting for the betterment of all the pilots.
Remember it’s also the low time guys, older guys switching careers and the people that didn’t slug it out through the crap that are pushing you up and out of here.
Much respect all around and hopefully this isn’t taken personally.
05-09-2018 | 05:28 AM
#133
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 468
Likes: 0
There's a fundamental misunderstanding here I think. Envoy isn't competing with American Eagle in 2008 to attract pilots, it's competing with Endeavor, Republic, etc. in 2018. It will ultimately need to offer a competitive package, regardless of whether anyone in the pilot group feels that new FO's should be punished so they "can know what it's like."
05-09-2018 | 05:29 AM
#134
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 134
Likes: 0
The company doesn’t see a need to raise anything (pay,QoL,etc.) if there is a pool of applicants waiting for a class date. This was not a contract negotiation.
Most, if not all, PP’s want better things for the NH’s and guys on property. Regardless of their history with the company. I strongly recommend all you guys post-PP to get very active with union volunteering. You guys will be replacing all the current guys soon!
Most, if not all, PP’s want better things for the NH’s and guys on property. Regardless of their history with the company. I strongly recommend all you guys post-PP to get very active with union volunteering. You guys will be replacing all the current guys soon!
05-09-2018 | 05:29 AM
#135
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Joined: May 2016
Posts: 1,609
Likes: 0
There's a fundamental misunderstanding here I think. Envoy isn't competing with American Eagle in 2008 to attract pilots, it's competing with Endeavor, Republic, etc. in 2018. It will ultimately need to offer a competitive package, regardless of whether anyone in the pilot group feels that new FO's should be punished so they "can know what it's like."
05-09-2018 | 05:30 AM
#136
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Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 134
Likes: 0
Wow. The insanity of it all. No one is advocating we got crapped on so you should get crapped on too. Never has a single pilot group got so much and claims to be getting the short end of the stick so often. What punishment have you received??? 20k bonus, third year FO pay, low reserve time, sky rocketing seniority number, 175 (for some), CA pay when awarded the upgrade, unlimited commuter hotels for three months, A12 passes, FO retention bonuses, 5-7 year flow...... come on!!!! What else do you want?? The PP group got a few thousand dollars and that's it. The PP group has received NOTHING that you have not received. Yet you continue to get all the benefits of the current market.
05-09-2018 | 05:31 AM
#137
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Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 1,729
Likes: 0
That excuse doesn’t really hold water anymore, maybe 6 months ago yes I would agree. The guys in that hour range can already hold any base or within one bid cycle which the loa provides positive space and commuter hotels for. By the time they finish training they probably won’t even see lga. The only ones really complaining are the ones holding out for DFW 175 and instead displaced to LGA in turn they can bid back to dfw anyway still on the 145. Not to mention they will get CA rates 3-4 months earlier than they otherwise would have and also go back to 175 long term when they can hold it.
Last edited by havick206; 05-09-2018 at 05:46 AM.
05-09-2018 | 05:36 AM
#138
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 468
Likes: 0
Wow. The insanity of it all. No one is advocating we got crapped on so you should get crapped on too. Never has a single pilot group got so much and claims to be getting the short end of the stick so often. What punishment have you received??? 20k bonus, third year FO pay, low reserve time, sky rocketing seniority number, 175 (for some), CA pay when awarded the upgrade, unlimited commuter hotels for three months, A12 passes, FO retention bonuses, 5-7 year flow...... come on!!!! What else do you want?? The PP group got a few thousand dollars and that's it. The PP group has received NOTHING that you have not received. Yet you continue to get all the benefits of the current market.
The debate of all this is the one’s who got the most are stomping their feet cause for the 1st time they didn’t get the most out of the deal. In reality it helps EVERYONE move faster. It was aimed at a remedy for the PP who were the one’s actually harmed & grievances filed over.
05-09-2018 | 05:41 AM
#139
Line Holder
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 47
Likes: 0
I saw this question several pages back but not sure anybody knew. As a point of clarification...if you were already awarded the CA upgrade, does the CA pay rate take affect from the date of the agreement, or not until the next bid? Thanks.
05-09-2018 | 05:43 AM
#140
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 4,176
Likes: 158
Wow. The insanity of it all. No one is advocating we got crapped on so you should get crapped on too. Never has a single pilot group got so much and claims to be getting the short end of the stick so often. What punishment have you received??? 20k bonus, third year FO pay, low reserve time, sky rocketing seniority number, 175 (for some), CA pay when awarded the upgrade, unlimited commuter hotels for three months, A12 passes, FO retention bonuses, 5-7 year flow...... come on!!!! What else do you want?? The PP group got a few thousand dollars and that's it. The PP group has received NOTHING that you have not received. Yet you continue to get all the benefits of the current market.
Again, I generally fee this was a good move for everyone and I’m happy it got passed.
Anyway, congratulations to all and again much respect, I am officially out of this thread. ✌️
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