Class Drop List
09-18-2021 | 03:12 AM
#1691
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 1,729
Likes: 0
yes, they definitely have gotten better, but it has not kept up with everybody else, not even close.
The QOL at the Voy is still lacking for pretty much anybody other than line holders living in base.
Many don’t realize how bad it is there until they leave and go elsewhere.
We told them in 2013 & 2014 this is how it would play out and to stop demanding concessions. They knew better though. Now they have to give $150k to get guys to stay to flow to AA…….
The QOL at the Voy is still lacking for pretty much anybody other than line holders living in base.
Many don’t realize how bad it is there until they leave and go elsewhere.
We told them in 2013 & 2014 this is how it would play out and to stop demanding concessions. They knew better though. Now they have to give $150k to get guys to stay to flow to AA…….
09-18-2021 | 09:47 AM
#1692
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 3,578
Likes: 48
From: Semi-Retired...
True, regarding the bonus only…… But the same dynamic is in play, flowing to AA isn’t worth the crap at an AA regional. They’d rather go be a Jetblue CA in two years than still be at the AA regional waiting to flow. It’s going to get worse as the shortens worsens.
09-18-2021 | 10:22 AM
#1693
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 1,729
Likes: 0
That’s all true, it’s just Envoy has maybe few more pieces of corn in the poo compared to some other regionals.
09-19-2021 | 09:02 AM
#1694
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 229
Likes: 0
From: Feeder of Amber
@ Cujo I agree that the flow isn’t what it’s hyped to be, they need to up the numbers to make it worthwhile, and until they do there will still be a teeming horde of people running to ULCCs and ACMIs. If management wanted to solve the staffing problem, flow increases would’ve been the answer.
But I still don’t think our QOL is “the worst in the industry”. All 3 of the small United 50 seat carriers are abused much much more than we are. Even the PDT guys are all getting 11 days off with bad trips. And our attrition is not unique to us, Republic lost more people last month than Envoy did.
I’ll summarize my perception of the Envoy I know:
The good:
•Our FO pay is better than anyone not named Endeavor. Our captain pay is average, maybe even teetering on the above average side.
•We get 4 commuter hotels a month, more than anyone else afaik, most don’t get any.
•I commute to a very commutable base at ORD with generally commutable lines. DFW is less so and MIA seems much less so, but it depends where you live.
•Not many complaints here about aircraft maintenance, compare that to Mesa/TSH.
The bad:
• No min day/duty rig
• No long call reserve, and if you’re the poor soul at the bottom of the list you’re sitting airport standby. A lot.
•Mgmt here has made bad decisions and negotiated in bad faith in the past. All 3 chiefs are improvements over their predecessors, but there’s still some ground to cover for company/union relations.
• For as big of a company as we are, we could use a couple more bases.
I wouldn’t say our QOL here lags because of the flow, we haven’t traded anything for flow and I don’t think we ever will. Regionals all have trade offs, and even ignoring the flow I wouldn’t dissuade anyone from coming here.
But I still don’t think our QOL is “the worst in the industry”. All 3 of the small United 50 seat carriers are abused much much more than we are. Even the PDT guys are all getting 11 days off with bad trips. And our attrition is not unique to us, Republic lost more people last month than Envoy did.
I’ll summarize my perception of the Envoy I know:
The good:
•Our FO pay is better than anyone not named Endeavor. Our captain pay is average, maybe even teetering on the above average side.
•We get 4 commuter hotels a month, more than anyone else afaik, most don’t get any.
•I commute to a very commutable base at ORD with generally commutable lines. DFW is less so and MIA seems much less so, but it depends where you live.
•Not many complaints here about aircraft maintenance, compare that to Mesa/TSH.
The bad:
• No min day/duty rig
• No long call reserve, and if you’re the poor soul at the bottom of the list you’re sitting airport standby. A lot.
•Mgmt here has made bad decisions and negotiated in bad faith in the past. All 3 chiefs are improvements over their predecessors, but there’s still some ground to cover for company/union relations.
• For as big of a company as we are, we could use a couple more bases.
I wouldn’t say our QOL here lags because of the flow, we haven’t traded anything for flow and I don’t think we ever will. Regionals all have trade offs, and even ignoring the flow I wouldn’t dissuade anyone from coming here.
09-19-2021 | 11:04 AM
#1695
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 288
Likes: 0
@ Cujo I agree that the flow isn’t what it’s hyped to be, they need to up the numbers to make it worthwhile, and until they do there will still be a teeming horde of people running to ULCCs and ACMIs. If management wanted to solve the staffing problem, flow increases would’ve been the answer.
But I still don’t think our QOL is “the worst in the industry”. All 3 of the small United 50 seat carriers are abused much much more than we are. Even the PDT guys are all getting 11 days off with bad trips. And our attrition is not unique to us, Republic lost more people last month than Envoy did.
I’ll summarize my perception of the Envoy I know:
The good:
•Our FO pay is better than anyone not named Endeavor. Our captain pay is average, maybe even teetering on the above average side.
•We get 4 commuter hotels a month, more than anyone else afaik, most don’t get any.
•I commute to a very commutable base at ORD with generally commutable lines. DFW is less so and MIA seems much less so, but it depends where you live.
•Not many complaints here about aircraft maintenance, compare that to Mesa/TSH.
The bad:
• No min day/duty rig
• No long call reserve, and if you’re the poor soul at the bottom of the list you’re sitting airport standby. A lot.
•Mgmt here has made bad decisions and negotiated in bad faith in the past. All 3 chiefs are improvements over their predecessors, but there’s still some ground to cover for company/union relations.
• For as big of a company as we are, we could use a couple more bases.
I wouldn’t say our QOL here lags because of the flow, we haven’t traded anything for flow and I don’t think we ever will. Regionals all have trade offs, and even ignoring the flow I wouldn’t dissuade anyone from coming here.
But I still don’t think our QOL is “the worst in the industry”. All 3 of the small United 50 seat carriers are abused much much more than we are. Even the PDT guys are all getting 11 days off with bad trips. And our attrition is not unique to us, Republic lost more people last month than Envoy did.
I’ll summarize my perception of the Envoy I know:
The good:
•Our FO pay is better than anyone not named Endeavor. Our captain pay is average, maybe even teetering on the above average side.
•We get 4 commuter hotels a month, more than anyone else afaik, most don’t get any.
•I commute to a very commutable base at ORD with generally commutable lines. DFW is less so and MIA seems much less so, but it depends where you live.
•Not many complaints here about aircraft maintenance, compare that to Mesa/TSH.
The bad:
• No min day/duty rig
• No long call reserve, and if you’re the poor soul at the bottom of the list you’re sitting airport standby. A lot.
•Mgmt here has made bad decisions and negotiated in bad faith in the past. All 3 chiefs are improvements over their predecessors, but there’s still some ground to cover for company/union relations.
• For as big of a company as we are, we could use a couple more bases.
I wouldn’t say our QOL here lags because of the flow, we haven’t traded anything for flow and I don’t think we ever will. Regionals all have trade offs, and even ignoring the flow I wouldn’t dissuade anyone from coming here.
Well said sir.
TORO
09-19-2021 | 05:16 PM
#1697
In a land of unicorns
Joined: Apr 2014
Posts: 7,072
Likes: 102
From: Whale FO
09-19-2021 | 06:06 PM
#1698
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 2,510
Likes: 0
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