You forgot to mention the "no reserve clause" if you're hired on the 175. It means you will never have to sit reserve at Envoy as an FO or captain. It also applies to AA after you flow. Amazing!

 

And most importantly, when logging time, create a separate column in your logbook called "engine under wing time." I know that this is looked heavily upon at the legacies. They'll be knocking down your door for you to come fly there!

 

I've actually heard it's pretty easy. There was a guy who did CDOs who lived in Nashville. Would commute in the night of and fly back the next morning and start the process again that night. I would think doing something like that would wear on you but he loved it and hadn't used a commuter clause in years.

 

Exactly my point. There is no correlation between E175 and getting hired at a legacy. Whomever started this whimsical belief and why is beyond my understanding.

 

Obviously to russle your jimmies, because literally no one believes that and you guys are really worked up.

 

Really ?

Well, a couple of classes ago at Envoy, the entire group scheduled for that class passed when no E-175 slots were offered, except one. Obviously, that proves that some DO believe that and that was the point of asking what the motivations are, that being simply one of ego and aesthetics or something based on more tangible reasons.

So far, no one has offered up anything that is tangible as to why, at least that which is proven to be quantifiable as a benefit to their careers other then, it's shiny and cool. I suppose we could be on the brink of a whole new sub-group of regional pilots, that being migrating journeymen following E-175 jobs around the country as long as they last and then moving on again, when forces eliminate that position ?

 

There is only 3 a day to DFW, all on RJ's. That is not good odds for commuting and/or actually getting to your destination the same day. Trust me.

There is flights to ORD all day long....

 

Newbies, here's a tip...
Major airline HR groups don't give a hoot if you fly a E175, CRJ200 or a E145.

They really don't.

So people that are wasting seniority for a bigger RJ... Dumb.

10, 20, 30.... 50 seniority numbers could mean the world of difference.... If you only knew.

 

Also that's the difference in having to come in the night before or day of. Remember you need 2 options to be able to use a commuter clause. When the second flight is scheduled for a 330 arrival I'm guessing that cancels out using it as a 2nd option for most trips or reserve assignments. But the 175 is shiny Sooo worth it?

 

Okay Guys,

I'm in the Envoy June 6th class and I leave for DFW tomorrow. I have to say, some of the stuff I'm reading here is scaring me. However, this isn't my first rodeo as I spent 26 years with AA in M&E/QA and on the management side in Regulatory Affairs and Dangerous Goods Transportation Compliance (Bankruptcy RIF got me in late 2012). My side gigs got me the flight time to get in on the pilot side at Envoy.

Just a comment or two on what I've learned from my time at AA.

1. Above all, have a certain respect for the leadership. There were a lot of years that I and my union brothers hated Robert Crandall with passion. But in hindsight, He was the greatest asset AA has ever had next to C.R. Smith. I agree he could have handled labor relations much better than he did, but his focus was always on the creation of a world class airline. To illustrate, if you had the choice today between Robert Crandall or Don Carty, which would you chose? The guy that built AA into a multi billion dollar success, or the guy that tore it up inside 4 years to pay off his political and investor buddies? We legacy guys miss Bob, even if some of us refuse to admit it. Personally, I am glad for one thing Don did, and that was rescue the careers of many TWA guys that would have been blown to the wind under the plans that Icon had for them.

2. QOL is a tough sell in this business and ever elusive for all but the most dedicated (and wise). As seniority builds, so does privilege. It's all the same whether your a pilot, an ATM, or a FSC. We accept there will be long hours and odd shifts under difficult and unpredictable conditions. Anyone that has been in the business since deregulation understands that beyond the hardships that come with the job, there is always the uncertainty that the company you work for today, may not be here tomorrow. So we are forced to compromise and adapt. It is simply the reality of this business.

3. If I learned anything from my time in this industry, it is that seniority is the greatest asset you will personally ever have. I know this first hand. I interviewed for an ATM position in April of 1986 and was told they would call in three weeks. Week 4 came and went and I started calling only to later find out the HR assistant was instructed to say no to anyone calling to check status. Finally one day, I called when the assistant was out to lunch and the HR director that interviewed me answered. After some research on his part, it was discovered that my file had been lost behind an overstuffed file cabinet. He called back the next day and made an offer. That was in September. Those 5 mouths cost me dearly in lost bids for QA positions and shift rotations over the years. The 8 of the 10 ATMs I worked with while doing line maintenance beat me by 1 to 4 mouths seniority! I had to eat crap for about 16 years of my ATM career at AA for those lost seniority numbers.

So to wrap up, there is probably good reason to be wary of leadership, but also a certain need to trust they are guiding the company in the right direction. Understand what you are getting into. It's not a bed of roses, and you're not going to get rich, but with time and wisdom, you can have a happy career and enjoy life for the most part. Finally, never ever forget that the date you hire will have far reaching effects on the path your career at any one company will take in this business. It carries more weight than any shinny new plane or perk you're offered.

On a much more personal note: I was crushed when I got separated from AA. I knew the possibility always existed, but it was very hard non-the-less when the moment came. I took a job outside the industry for a couple of years and hated it! Now? Now I'm ever so thankful that I have been given the opportunity to return to what I love to do and do it with the people that I have so enjoyed working with all these years. For me, there is some financial catch-up to do, but like I say to all my friends and family, "This isn't work! Flying is so much fun, I'm amazed a paycheck shows up in my mailbox every two weeks!"

That's my two cents.

Flyboy