Originally Posted by Simpsons

So I have a friend at Envoy that was telling me he had a deadhead home at the end of a reserve block and the deadhead wasn't positive space. He was saying that since he had the following day off they just booked the highest priority standby. Apparently Envoy also does this coming back from training? Is this possible and if so how is it acceptable?

Originally Posted by mesapilot86

Dude, no need to get all butt hurt about this guy. You Envoy guys are always happy over there right? Yep. Got it. Get treated really well, pay never messed up, great schedules with 17 days off each month, high credit lines, multiple bases to choose from. Plus that awesome flow that gets you to AA in less than 6 years right? Yeah, sure. Got it.

I'm younger than you and just happen to work at DFW as well. I was a Captain here right at the 2 year mark. How long does it take you Envoy guys to upgrade? Like 8 years right. Yeah, thought so. Got it. So, I'm a Captain after two years, building 121 PIC, got my app out with all the majors. I'll get a call way before you guys sitting around on your duffs waiting for that flow. Mesa isn't great but it sure isn't any worse than Envoy. I hold commutable lines with 15 days off every month. Do you have that at Envoy? Yep, thought so. Got it. I know, you have to commute in the night before and commute out the day after for your 14 hour 4 day trip. My 4 day trips are around 20.

So I will likely make it to a major years before you while you are sitting there waiting on your flow. Maybe you'll get tired of it and get desperate and do everything you can to get on with my major. Then you'll be pulling my gear. What would you think about that? Yep, thought so.

I'm way content here. And I don't work at your lousy outfit. Like I said, regionals are all bad. It's just Envoy is in the same boat with Mesa and is likely worse. Your guys schedules suck, your pay sucks, your management treats you like indentured servants. What else did I miss? Lots. Anyway, I just turned 30 and am sitting in the Captain's seat and building that PIC. Maybe you'll flow when you hit 40. Yep, thought so. Got it.

Originally Posted by Simpsons

I don't see how that's acceptable at all. You're not there on vacation the company needs you there and you shouldn't have the possibility of being involuntarily removed from a flight to get home

Originally Posted by 271c

It's positive space man, you're just like a paying passenger (albeit you're on the priority of those who purchase the cheapest tickets when going home) -- paying passengers also get bumped if stuff hits the fan and you have 180 people with tickets for a 160-seat flight. But that's not standby. I don't know the inner workings, I just know I haven't been bumped, nor has anyone I know (but definitely I know that it's happened). But going home it's probably more likely to be bumped than going to work as you're listed differently, at least for training events. It's not something I've worried about honestly. Besides, in the going to/from training situations, it's a heck of a lot better and less stressful than the other "going to or from work" trips for folks who live out of base and non-rev to work, like me, so I have no complaints in that regard.

Originally Posted by 271c

It's positive space man, you're just like a paying passenger (albeit you're on the priority of those who purchase the cheapest tickets when going home) -- paying passengers also get bumped if stuff hits the fan and you have 180 people with tickets for a 160-seat flight. But that's not standby. I don't know the inner workings, I just know I haven't been bumped, nor has anyone I know (but definitely I know that it's happened). But going home it's probably more likely to be bumped than going to work as you're listed differently, at least for training events. It's not something I've worried about honestly. Besides, in the going to/from training situations, it's a heck of a lot better and less stressful than the other "going to or from work" trips for folks who live out of base and non-rev to work, like me, so I have no complaints in that regard.

Originally Posted by ag386

It's not "positive space" unless you have a guaranteed seat. And A3 ain't positive space.

If it's 7am and Envoy needs you to deadhead up to ORD for a 12pm sign in, I can guarantee you'll be A1 and can walk up 15 minutes before departure and the agent will go as far as pulling a revenue passenger off the flight to get you on. Why? Because Envoy/AAG needs you there to operate that flight. Why A3 on the way home? Because they don't need you at home for any reason. Unless...there's a flight they need you to operate. Then you'll be A1 and get on.

A3 is NOT positive space.

Originally Posted by ag386

It's not "positive space" unless you have a guaranteed seat. And A3 ain't positive space.

If it's 7am and Envoy needs you to deadhead up to ORD for a 12pm sign in, I can guarantee you'll be A1 and can walk up 15 minutes before departure and the agent will go as far as pulling a revenue passenger off the flight to get you on. Why? Because Envoy/AAG needs you there to operate that flight. Why A3 on the way home? Because they don't need you at home for any reason. Unless...there's a flight they need you to operate. Then you'll be A1 and get on.

A3 is NOT positive space.

Originally Posted by 271c

I don't disagree about the differences between a1 and a3. But the term positive space doesn't imply a guaranteed seat. Not even paying passengers have that - people get bumped, cancelled, rolled over, etc. Positive space means you have been assigned a seat, a boarding pass. Yes, you could get bumped. Just like if I book a cheap ticket through Travelocity and check in last -- I'm gonna be first to get bumped.

Again, not disagreeing with the bulk of what you said, but by definition A3 is in fact positive space, albeit low priority amongst the revenue passengers -- it is not standby. You may feel it's about as valuable as standby, and in fact depending on your check in time you're exactly one spot above the first D1, but that's no different than some revenue pax.

Originally Posted by mesapilot86

Dude, no need to get all butt hurt about this guy. You Envoy guys are always happy over there right? Yep. Got it. Get treated really well, pay never messed up, great schedules with 17 days off each month, high credit lines, multiple bases to choose from. Plus that awesome flow that gets you to AA in less than 6 years right? Yeah, sure. Got it.

I'm younger than you and just happen to work at DFW as well. I was a Captain here right at the 2 year mark. How long does it take you Envoy guys to upgrade? Like 8 years right. Yeah, thought so. Got it. So, I'm a Captain after two years, building 121 PIC, got my app out with all the majors. I'll get a call way before you guys sitting around on your duffs waiting for that flow. Mesa isn't great but it sure isn't any worse than Envoy. I hold commutable lines with 15 days off every month. Do you have that at Envoy? Yep, thought so. Got it. I know, you have to commute in the night before and commute out the day after for your 14 hour 4 day trip. My 4 day trips are around 20.

So I will likely make it to a major years before you while you are sitting there waiting on your flow. Maybe you'll get tired of it and get desperate and do everything you can to get on with my major. Then you'll be pulling my gear. What would you think about that? Yep, thought so.

I'm way content here. And I don't work at your lousy outfit. Like I said, regionals are all bad. It's just Envoy is in the same boat with Mesa and is likely worse. Your guys schedules suck, your pay sucks, your management treats you like indentured servants. What else did I miss? Lots. Anyway, I just turned 30 and am sitting in the Captain's seat and building that PIC. Maybe you'll flow when you hit 40. Yep, thought so. Got it.