Pntbllr233

Mine was on a Tuesday. I just checked and I had a conditional offer by Friday. So it was a total of 3 days between.

Icaruss

Please check pm.

HighFlight

So what is the current Envoy first year pay with guarantee and bonuses? And how much does it drop for 2nd year?

TimetoClimb

Following your math, if someone is hired in 6 months with 300 ahead of him (envoy hiring 50/mo), that 6 month delay will cost him nearly 2 yrs extra waiting to flow. I'm sorry, but this 'hurry aboard and pull up the ladder behind you' mentality is so blatantly dense; there are far too many variables to simplify it to this level.

What about the guys still instructing that need 10 more months to make it to envoy; with 500 ahead of them, is the flow gonna be an additional 3yrs on top of the 6 yrs for someone hired today?

I can imagine what he will be told.. "oh too bad kid, looks like if you'd completed that instrument rating faster your career would've gone a lot better"

I know seniority is everything in this line of work, but your relative seniority is part of a continuum that is affected by the decisions of multiple airlines and is always in flux. You can't say for sure today is the best day and tomorrow will invariably be worse. In my opinion, becoming a capable, flexible and outgoing pilot is a much better use of time than attempting to read a crystal ball.

Purpleanga

The flow math doesn't add up. If it's 15 a month, which is the min, that would be like a 8+ year flow for someone hired today.

lakehouse

They have the average attrition that's drafted on years of historical data to draft up a realistic idea of hired today, calculate flow and then calculate protected attrition. You then have time to aa.

RyanP

Unfortunately, your opinion is wrong. This is the airlines and seniority is the only thing that matters. You can spend your time doing whatever you want, but you will pay for it for the rest of your career if you get hired at the back end of a big hiring wave.. And you REALLY dont want to get hired 2-3 years later into this hiring cycle at the majors. That is 2,000-3,000 younger people that will be parked in front of you for the next 3+ decades. Getting the good schedules, weekends off and holidays off you will be stuck working. You think your wife and kids will care if you are a more well rounded person when you are gone every christmas and birthday? This is the reality of this industry.

For example. I had friends hired 800 numbers junior to me in a big hiring spree, only a little more than a year apart in seniority. Our last decade has been incredibly different. I bid whatever I wanted, didnt spend any time on reserve, 17- 18 days off for years. Weekends/holidays off. Upgraded nearly 4 years ahead of them. Made a lot more money while they were broke. They had years and years of reserve, horrible schedules the entire time. Worked weekends and holidays for the better part of a decade, and now they will start over way behind me at AA all over again while AA is also street hiring hundreds and hundreds of people ahead of them as well.

Get your number in line. "Then" go work on your personal stuff or marketability....

FlameNSky

Uh no, there are still 1600 + pilots in front of a new hire today that will be flowing at a much faster rate than 15 per month. You are right in the sense that the longer it is going forward for a new hire, that time will increase as more pilots in the "15 pilots per month" group get hired before them.

That being said. The current envoy flow paradigm didn't become what it is today through one contractual negotiation. It has evolved through several negotiation periods which is why there are several distinct groups established. The AAG/envoy management didn't do this by mistake. You can expect that in a few years, perhaps during the next Section 6 negotiating period, they will suggest that the pilots hired after Oct 2013, those currently in the 15 per month group, will do up to 25 or 30 a month in exchange for whatever management wants from the pilots at the time. You will then have another group established at the flow will go back to 15 a month for someone hired after that signing date.

I don't agree with it. I don't think that as a union we should allow for a separation of employees to receive different compensation but it is what it is. A new hire today can expect to be confronted with the decision of accepting a certain contract attached to a greater flow provision or reject the contractual change and maintain the 15 flows per month.

airlinegypsy

Make that more like 1300 in front of any new hire. There are approximately 300 lifers who will retire from Envoy.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

FlameNSky

That's true. I forgot about them.