Pay increases at Envoy
09-14-2016 | 01:26 PM
#223
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Running some quick upgrade numbers for those interested. 2 scenarios.
Scentric 1. We lose 300 captains to the flow next year and hire 300 FOs to replace.
Most junior upgrade awarded was an October 2010 hire.
300 after that pilot is a November 2011 hire. So upgrade would stay the same through end of 2017 at 6 years.
300 after that though started class on monday. So 2018 upgrades would be around 2 years.
Scenario 2. We lose 400 to flow and are able replace them with new FOs.
Same pilot is most junior captain awarded
400 after that pilot is a march 2014 hire. Meaning upgrade would drop by end of 2017 to 2 and 3/4 years and would continue to fall as there aren't even 300 pilots following that pilot.
Rough numbers based on an old seniority list but illustrates how quickly upgrades could drop here and current times don't necessarily project future upgrade times.
Scentric 1. We lose 300 captains to the flow next year and hire 300 FOs to replace.
Most junior upgrade awarded was an October 2010 hire.
300 after that pilot is a November 2011 hire. So upgrade would stay the same through end of 2017 at 6 years.
300 after that though started class on monday. So 2018 upgrades would be around 2 years.
Scenario 2. We lose 400 to flow and are able replace them with new FOs.
Same pilot is most junior captain awarded
400 after that pilot is a march 2014 hire. Meaning upgrade would drop by end of 2017 to 2 and 3/4 years and would continue to fall as there aren't even 300 pilots following that pilot.
Rough numbers based on an old seniority list but illustrates how quickly upgrades could drop here and current times don't necessarily project future upgrade times.
For the guys upgrading over the next couple of bids there will be a massive bubble of CAs leaving the E145 fleet. Of the remaining 250ish pilots in the "824" flow group 180 of them are coming off the E145 since very few of those guys bid the 175 or CRJ to avoid a seat lock prior to flow. That entire group should be gone by May or June. Even if the E145 fleet shrinks a little there will be a big opportunity to move up the list. Additionally since the E175 is fairly junior in the FO seat a lot of the upgrades will be coming off the CRJ and E145 which should help keep reserve times times pretty low across all three fleets if that was a big concern for anybody.
09-14-2016 | 01:49 PM
#224
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09-14-2016 | 02:12 PM
#226
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So let me get this straight....
Some folks are mad because new hires are getting raises and retention bonus's and saying we should thank YOU for paying the raises and such while you guys get crapped on...
This proposal was made yesterday and effective today without a soul getting a vote....
I think you're mad at the wrong people. If you have an issue, it seems to me like you have a management issue, not a new hire issue.
And guess why we have some of these incentives and bonuses? Because of support from senior pilot groups AND the new hires that held out from joining a regional in the first place because pay wasn't worth it.
Although this may not be the best, its a boost, it's a start. But something had to be done in order to captivate new hires through the door.
My respects to the senior folks as well, I realize the argument you're trying to make and I truly hope something changes for you in regards to your efforts.
But once again, don't blame us for getting the bump in pay we never even voted for. Don't think some of us new guys don't think about you. But please reevaluate where you want to place the blame and your gripes toward.
Some folks are mad because new hires are getting raises and retention bonus's and saying we should thank YOU for paying the raises and such while you guys get crapped on...
This proposal was made yesterday and effective today without a soul getting a vote....
I think you're mad at the wrong people. If you have an issue, it seems to me like you have a management issue, not a new hire issue.
And guess why we have some of these incentives and bonuses? Because of support from senior pilot groups AND the new hires that held out from joining a regional in the first place because pay wasn't worth it.
Although this may not be the best, its a boost, it's a start. But something had to be done in order to captivate new hires through the door.
My respects to the senior folks as well, I realize the argument you're trying to make and I truly hope something changes for you in regards to your efforts.
But once again, don't blame us for getting the bump in pay we never even voted for. Don't think some of us new guys don't think about you. But please reevaluate where you want to place the blame and your gripes toward.
Your argument sounds like something a SCAB would say. Don't blame me
for crossing the picket line blame mgt for hiring me.
09-14-2016 | 02:31 PM
#227
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Joined: Nov 2011
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From: Gear swinger
If you're not God, DON'T judge me.
Have several seats sir. G'Day
And I'm no scab.
09-14-2016 | 02:35 PM
#228
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09-14-2016 | 03:37 PM
#229
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There sure is a lot of math happening based on flow increasing to 40/month and staying 40/month. I'm finally feeling optimistic about the future of Envoy, but the guys acting like 40/month is a done deal that will be permanent, well...that's a little far fetched as of right now. All we know is that AA asked Envoy to send 40/month next year. No talk of specifically when and no talk of how long they'd like us to send that many. Lets cool off on making that figure gospel until we have a little more info on that.
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