Envoy
02-07-2018, 02:42 PM
#7051
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2015
Position: Gear slinger
Posts: 2,898
Originally Posted by chrisreedrules
I knew 2 base announcements were coming. However I was personally skeptical about Philly even though I guess on paper it makes the most sense for the flying PSA does... ORF was a given. If you look on travel planner and see the amount of flights PSA will be operating from ORF to the hubs and how much “through-flying” and funneling through PHL will be done by ORF crews by the end of the year that one was obvious.
PHL though... I wonder how this will impact Piedmont's recruiting efforts. PHL is all they have (for now).
PHL though... I wonder how this will impact Piedmont's recruiting efforts. PHL is all they have (for now).
Piedmont still has 4-5 month waits to get folks into class between interview and Indoc. Piedmont already competes with republic for recruitment in PHL but intra WO competition now that PSAs flow is increasing will put pressure on PDT management to increase pay and benefits. Current hiring (20/month) is covering barely attrition as they try to expand the jet fleet. If Piedmont opens CLT or DCA they’ll gain other interested parties who wish to join the company and live/be line holders in those bases which should offset the recruitment losses due to PSA competition in PHL.
Everyone keeps speculating about a Piedmont merger with Envoy but Outside of equipment differences (and that Piedmont was supposed to get 170s as their new jet as part of the long term plan) a PSA/PDT merger makes more sense than Envoy/PDT. Shared training center in CLT, consolidated payroll operation in MDT, flight ops management transitioning back and forth between both and soon to be shared jet bases. Old timers at PDT recall the brief period where PSA and PDT were called other things and PDT owned PSA before US Airways acquired both as their express carriers.
ORF was a Piedmont base back in the day and A year ago folks in Management at PDT were talking about some nice hangar space for a mx base in ORF and after PSA announcement of the mx base there there was some discussion about a consolidated base with PDT and PSA. It would be real interesting if that happened.
The jets that Piedmont is receiving have an estimated 4-6 years of life left in them. PDTs path will be determined by where AA decides it’s additional aircraft will be coming from. AA is likely determining that right now. Piedmont has 7000-8000 employees, of which less than 10% make up its pilot group so there’s a lot more to consider than just pilots and airplanes when AA decides it’s future.
02-07-2018, 02:42 PM
#7052
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2016
Posts: 1,609
Originally Posted by chrisreedrules
Yea I mean, every regional has reason to dislike another regional if you go back far enough. I’m not rationalizing the vote. It was around 5 years ago now and I wasn’t even on property then. I probably would have gone to Envoy if they had kept the MIA base open when I was looking at regionals. I probably would have gone to Piedmont if it wouldn’t have meant a 2-leg commute to some crap outstation. So I decided on PSA for the easy commute and the promises of the SAP (which by the way has been absolutely phenomenal for mine and my families’ QOL and nothing you ever say will make me regret my decision based on that fact alone). A couple points of contention worth mentioning however...
1) Many on property at PSA at the time of that vote firmly believed those 900s were coming to PSA regardless of the contract passing and voted no. The vote was pretty close and probably 90% of the yes voters aren’t even here anymore. Blaming former (and current) PSA pilots who were a mom n’ pop pilot group of less than 500 pilots for keeping food on their families’ tables is absurd. Parker doesn’t mess around. He would have shut PSA down fast. He knew where to apply pressure and he did it.
2) The contract language that was voted on gave PSA pilots the SAP and the critical pay/scheduling language made our pilots some of the highest paid in the industry for a brief time. Company won that in arbitration however.
3) PSA didn’t take anything from Envoy. American management found itself at the helm of a multi-billion dollar corporation that happened to have one regional flying a mixed fleet. To them, that doesn’t make much sense from a financial standpoint. Mergers are always messy. This one was actually pretty tame all things considered.
4) PSA Pilots had absolutely nothing to do with anyone trying to lure anyone else’s pilots.
Based on your comments you’re either a not so clever troll or extremely obtuse. Or perhaps you lack understanding and only believe what you’re told.
And out of curiosity, how long have you been with Envoy?
1) Many on property at PSA at the time of that vote firmly believed those 900s were coming to PSA regardless of the contract passing and voted no. The vote was pretty close and probably 90% of the yes voters aren’t even here anymore. Blaming former (and current) PSA pilots who were a mom n’ pop pilot group of less than 500 pilots for keeping food on their families’ tables is absurd. Parker doesn’t mess around. He would have shut PSA down fast. He knew where to apply pressure and he did it.
2) The contract language that was voted on gave PSA pilots the SAP and the critical pay/scheduling language made our pilots some of the highest paid in the industry for a brief time. Company won that in arbitration however.
3) PSA didn’t take anything from Envoy. American management found itself at the helm of a multi-billion dollar corporation that happened to have one regional flying a mixed fleet. To them, that doesn’t make much sense from a financial standpoint. Mergers are always messy. This one was actually pretty tame all things considered.
4) PSA Pilots had absolutely nothing to do with anyone trying to lure anyone else’s pilots.
Based on your comments you’re either a not so clever troll or extremely obtuse. Or perhaps you lack understanding and only believe what you’re told.
And out of curiosity, how long have you been with Envoy?
02-07-2018, 03:30 PM
#7054
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2017
Posts: 190
Originally Posted by MD-11Loader
As a native of this industry for almost two decades, I have observed what has transpired and who sat by and let it happen. 9/11, age 65, SARS, the global economic downturn, all contributed to hardships at the airlines. But even with those hardships airlines took a stand. Comair went on strike in March of 2001 to get a better contract and to make a stand. All of the regionals applauded them.
Mesa created Freedom to get around scope. Trans States created GoJet for the same thing. Pilots have time and time again shown themselves to put self-interest above the collective good. PSA did that. You can call me obtuse; you can call me a troll. It is well documented that Express Jet, Air Wisconsin, Envoy and others were trying to hold the line together, and were sold out. There are no if's and's or but's about it. You can quickly search and educate yourself on the 97 aircraft that were to be allocated to other airlines.
So think what you want, call me what you want. You knowingly entered into a system where your predecessors helped slit the throats of others and continue to reap the benefits.
Mesa created Freedom to get around scope. Trans States created GoJet for the same thing. Pilots have time and time again shown themselves to put self-interest above the collective good. PSA did that. You can call me obtuse; you can call me a troll. It is well documented that Express Jet, Air Wisconsin, Envoy and others were trying to hold the line together, and were sold out. There are no if's and's or but's about it. You can quickly search and educate yourself on the 97 aircraft that were to be allocated to other airlines.
So think what you want, call me what you want. You knowingly entered into a system where your predecessors helped slit the throats of others and continue to reap the benefits.
02-07-2018, 05:22 PM
#7056
Line Holder
Joined APC: Dec 2015
Posts: 33
Hey I was wondering if someone could give me some insight on what to look ahead at envoy if I come there this summer. Right now flying survey in an Aztec, just broke 1275TT and soon will be shooting out the resumes to a bunch of regionals. Envoy is at the top of the list due to having a Miami base (I know this is a dream and highly unlikely out of indoc) but I wouldn’t mind LGA either as I grew up on Long Island. I would really like to advoid Chicago though. What are the classes going to each Hub on average? Also, from time of my interview does anyone know how far back I’d wait for a class to start if I did interview in May or June? PSA is another I’m looking at along with Endevor but I don’t have a degree for Delta anyways. Anything else to help me along the way I would greatly appreciate it. Thanks.
02-07-2018, 05:47 PM
#7057
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2016
Posts: 439
Originally Posted by Hockeyjr1
Hey I was wondering if someone could give me some insight on what to look ahead at envoy if I come there this summer. Right now flying survey in an Aztec, just broke 1275TT and soon will be shooting out the resumes to a bunch of regionals. Envoy is at the top of the list due to having a Miami base (I know this is a dream and highly unlikely out of indoc) but I wouldn’t mind LGA either as I grew up on Long Island. I would really like to advoid Chicago though. What are the classes going to each Hub on average? Also, from time of my interview does anyone know how far back I’d wait for a class to start if I did interview in May or June? PSA is another I’m looking at along with Endevor but I don’t have a degree for Delta anyways. Anything else to help me along the way I would greatly appreciate it. Thanks.
LGA E145 has been been offered to every new hire class since the base was re-opened in 2016.
If you want Miami, ensure you choose the E145, 175s currently have no plan for doing any Miami flying, they aren’t even doing any fly-through. And CRJ is only in Chicago so avoid that like the plague if you want to stay away from Chicago.
From what you stated above I would say choose LGA 145 in training, get through training and as soon as you’re on property, add a bid preference for Miami, you will most likely get it in either the first or second vacancy bid they run for that base.
Only other thing I would recommend is to get a degree, the flow here and at any of the other whollyown airlines is bad. And I wouldn’t ever rely on it. They’ve dumbed down these bachelor degree programs so much for my fellow (soal searching/can’t think for themselves) millennials that you should be just fine getting some easy degree. I’m sure you could get on with another major before this 9+ year flow works.
And one last added tip. Reserve here sucks. Whether your a guy that sat it for almost 4 years like some of us on property or guys that sat it for 1 month like most new hires today, it still sucks a big D***. So my tip is this. Go to LGA, and get a line (u will get one fast), but don’t transfer to Miami until you can hold a line there. Unless you plan to live in Miami itself, I would recommend doing what I stated above!
Congrats on your new career and best of luck to you! Great time to be a pilot. Despite all the whiny babies on these forums.
02-07-2018, 07:32 PM
#7058
Line Holder
Joined APC: Apr 2010
Posts: 28
Originally Posted by MD-11Loader
As a native of this industry for almost two decades, I have observed what has transpired and who sat by and let it happen. 9/11, age 65, SARS, the global economic downturn, all contributed to hardships at the airlines. But even with those hardships airlines took a stand. Comair went on strike in March of 2001 to get a better contract and to make a stand. All of the regionals applauded them.
Mesa created Freedom to get around scope. Trans States created GoJet for the same thing. Pilots have time and time again shown themselves to put self-interest above the collective good. PSA did that. You can call me obtuse; you can call me a troll. It is well documented that Express Jet, Air Wisconsin, Envoy and others were trying to hold the line together, and were sold out. There are no if's and's or but's about it. You can quickly search and educate yourself on the 97 aircraft that were to be allocated to other airlines.
So think what you want, call me what you want. You knowingly entered into a system where your predecessors helped slit the throats of others and continue to reap the benefits.
Mesa created Freedom to get around scope. Trans States created GoJet for the same thing. Pilots have time and time again shown themselves to put self-interest above the collective good. PSA did that. You can call me obtuse; you can call me a troll. It is well documented that Express Jet, Air Wisconsin, Envoy and others were trying to hold the line together, and were sold out. There are no if's and's or but's about it. You can quickly search and educate yourself on the 97 aircraft that were to be allocated to other airlines.
So think what you want, call me what you want. You knowingly entered into a system where your predecessors helped slit the throats of others and continue to reap the benefits.
02-07-2018, 09:14 PM
#7059
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2009
Posts: 2,035
Originally Posted by MD-11Loader
I’m not embarrassed. I don’t work for the company that undercut the other regionals when they were trying to hold their ground against cuts, took an entire fleet from one, as well as orders, and then had the stones to go to that company and try to lure their pilots over.
PSA’s actions are well known, and while not scabs in definition, they’re scabs in spirit.
PSA’s actions are well known, and while not scabs in definition, they’re scabs in spirit.
True story!
02-08-2018, 01:22 AM
#7060
Line Holder
Joined APC: Dec 2015
Posts: 33
Originally Posted by Ijustlikeflying
All good questions. Miami isn’t and probably won’t be offered to new hires for the foreseeable future. But any new hire can hold Miami or Dallas within 6months of your hire date. These are our two senior bases. If you figure 3 or more months in training, you really would only be stuck somewhere else at max maybe 4 months.
LGA E145 has been been offered to every new hire class since the base was re-opened in 2016.
If you want Miami, ensure you choose the E145, 175s currently have no plan for doing any Miami flying, they aren’t even doing any fly-through. And CRJ is only in Chicago so avoid that like the plague if you want to stay away from Chicago.
From what you stated above I would say choose LGA 145 in training, get through training and as soon as you’re on property, add a bid preference for Miami, you will most likely get it in either the first or second vacancy bid they run for that base.
Only other thing I would recommend is to get a degree, the flow here and at any of the other whollyown airlines is bad. And I wouldn’t ever rely on it. They’ve dumbed down these bachelor degree programs so much for my fellow (soal searching/can’t think for themselves) millennials that you should be just fine getting some easy degree. I’m sure you could get on with another major before this 9+ year flow works.
And one last added tip. Reserve here sucks. Whether your a guy that sat it for almost 4 years like some of us on property or guys that sat it for 1 month like most new hires today, it still sucks a big D***. So my tip is this. Go to LGA, and get a line (u will get one fast), but don’t transfer to Miami until you can hold a line there. Unless you plan to live in Miami itself, I would recommend doing what I stated above!
Congrats on your new career and best of luck to you! Great time to be a pilot. Despite all the whiny babies on these forums.
LGA E145 has been been offered to every new hire class since the base was re-opened in 2016.
If you want Miami, ensure you choose the E145, 175s currently have no plan for doing any Miami flying, they aren’t even doing any fly-through. And CRJ is only in Chicago so avoid that like the plague if you want to stay away from Chicago.
From what you stated above I would say choose LGA 145 in training, get through training and as soon as you’re on property, add a bid preference for Miami, you will most likely get it in either the first or second vacancy bid they run for that base.
Only other thing I would recommend is to get a degree, the flow here and at any of the other whollyown airlines is bad. And I wouldn’t ever rely on it. They’ve dumbed down these bachelor degree programs so much for my fellow (soal searching/can’t think for themselves) millennials that you should be just fine getting some easy degree. I’m sure you could get on with another major before this 9+ year flow works.
And one last added tip. Reserve here sucks. Whether your a guy that sat it for almost 4 years like some of us on property or guys that sat it for 1 month like most new hires today, it still sucks a big D***. So my tip is this. Go to LGA, and get a line (u will get one fast), but don’t transfer to Miami until you can hold a line there. Unless you plan to live in Miami itself, I would recommend doing what I stated above!
Congrats on your new career and best of luck to you! Great time to be a pilot. Despite all the whiny babies on these forums.
Do you or anyone else know how long they are backed up with classes? Not sure I would get an accurate answer from a recruiter. Just trying to figure out the end of my survey contract and timing the interview.
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