JustAnotherPLT

I don't know why that's funny, we've done it before. Last time we did 2 for 1 we used the aircraft WE have leases on for the Delta 90s. We then took the 50s and started flying for YoNited. Same thing that'll happen here.

Klopek1

Oh come now, I was in no way insinuating you have a terrible contract. I was merely exaggerating just like you did. Am I not allowed to? How's that glass house treatin' ya? It sounds like we both want the same thing... something better than what we have. But, again... where does it end? What if mainline were to suddenly drop their compensation and benefits to a level below ours? Should we willingly do the same? If it gets to the point where I have to give up the benefits that made me desire this job in the first place, I'm gonna find a new career. I enjoy what I do, but not THAT much. We already sacrifice a great deal for this job. How much is enough?

I see where you're coming from here, but we look out for the company insofar as operating efficiently and safely, but that is a responsibility to the passengers first and the company second. We're talking about money here... Savings should come from conscientious operation, not a reduced paycheck. I've just never heard of this sort of compromise in another industry (and please, correct me if I'm wrong). If the company I'm working for wants me to accept less to save them, it's time to bust out the resumes.

Specifically, what do the "ERJ guys" want that is so unreasonable? What is "the moon," as you put it? What, if anything is in your current contract that you'd like to see gone from the new contract?

Red97Vette

Does this birdie also say if the 50's that are going to fly for AMR are operated by ASA or Eagle or someone else?

BlueMoon

No ditching training require for extended over water ops, the only training that is required is that crew members set instruction and demo life vest usage. Also a life vest for each passenger on the plane. I remember watching some video, but that was years ago.

There are some procedures that are train by memo, like route or A/C requirements (flight conducted above FL250, within 162nm of shore between such and such Latitudes), as well as having the flig attendants brief pax on life vest usage before traveling greater than 50nm off shore.

Not a big deal from a line pilots point of view.

todd1200

I fly with a lot of guys who have been here 20+ years and it doesn't surprise me when they are afraid to rock the boat -- but why in the world would FOs making 30-40k be worried about a "sustainable" contract? Why does everyone complain about pay, scheduling, and the general way we are treated by the company, but as soon as there is an opportunity to work toward improvements, we allow fear and negativity to overcome reason. Jerry & Co. know how to make money, so why don't we let them worry about that, while we all work toward improving our own situation. I'm afraid our expectations have been so thoroughly managed that we've actually become convinced that the way we're treated is for our own good.

Red97Vette

the FO's are worried about a sustainable contract because we have NO interest in being 10 year FO's and we want nothing better than to get out of this god forsaken regional industry. Most captains around this place were able to upgrade between 2 - 4 years, now its 7+, if you cant understand why we want growth and expansion, then you have gotten too comfortable being a lifer captain.

JustAnotherPLT

I don't think we would continue to lease the airplanes for other pilots to fly. It would be us if this is true.

gtechpilot

The birdies in the training department and the guys who write our manuals have no clue why they are being asked to do so, but our -200 department is being set up so that we can perform extended over water operations. We can obviously let the rumor mill fly on from there!

goaround2000

I use to think the same way when I was an f/o. The problem with your theory is that you're willing to trade growth for anything (please see gojets), but you don't take into account the possibility that even with growth the list can still stagnate and you would be left to work under a ****ty contract. Upgrade on the crj side is close to 7 years as you mentioned, and even if the lists were integrated today; you'd still have fences and other protections. You're also making the assumption that upgrading will guarantee you a job at a major shortly thereafter, another rookie mistake, look at the past 10 years in this industry. It's in the best interest of all to have a leading contract, profitability is up to management.

What

Just me thinking out loud, let's say that is for AA flying... The Bahamas don't require overwater ops neither does EYW! So if it was to take the flying from Eagle in MIA I don't see a reason (the birds Eagle have in MIA don't have the rafts since we don't serve any routes that require it) If it was to take the flying for Eagle in SJU, the -200 can't get in and out of the airports that AMR would need Tortolla and Dominica. Also Eagle is certified for overwater ops but the life rafts have been removed so we must comply with the 50 nm of any pebble! How would the 200 do with all the life rafts on board? I mean what performance penalty would it take?