What's the Latest at ASA/Expressjet?
07-02-2012 | 07:46 PM
#362
Banned
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,934
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From: EMB 145 CPT
There's an interesting undertone from a few of the ERJ ExpressJet guys on here. I don't know if it's a self-conscious thing because your company was acquired (by Skyw Inc.). If it's some sort of over compensation because you have an inferiority complex of some sort (I don't understand why you would). Or, if you are just a couple of jackasses trying to get a rise out of the CRJ guys and create a divide on the ERJ. Goaround, for your sake I really hope you are just trolling. The crap you spew and te dissent you try to create is 1. Not based on facts, what TA are you talking about!? And 2. Is going to do nothing to better this company . Unfortunately there are people who read this stuff and don't know better than to look past the crap you write and realize you are full of it. Nevets. Well, you used to make sense but your delivery these days sounds more like a desperate broken record. I've written you off too.
To those who are either new to this business or new to reading these boards, please take what these guys write with a huge grain of salt. It is this divisiveness and distribution of "facts" by a few people with agendas that will do nothing but drive you crazy and make you angry. That's what they want!
I've met so many ERJ XJT crews this year and I am really looking forward to working along side them in the future. I won't let a few jerks from your side effect my opinion of you, and I hope you will do the same for us.
To those who are either new to this business or new to reading these boards, please take what these guys write with a huge grain of salt. It is this divisiveness and distribution of "facts" by a few people with agendas that will do nothing but drive you crazy and make you angry. That's what they want!
I've met so many ERJ XJT crews this year and I am really looking forward to working along side them in the future. I won't let a few jerks from your side effect my opinion of you, and I hope you will do the same for us.
We don't want ANYTHING less than what we have. The problem as I see it from my admittedly narrow point of view from these forums is that since the crj guys have an inferior contract, they are willing to live with gains for themselves that would be concessions to the ERJ guys' concessionary contract.
07-03-2012 | 02:59 AM
#363
Underpaid...
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 2,101
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From: French-Canadian
I am glad to hear you guys are willing to fight for what you have as well as improvements, but there is no need for the bickering about who has a better contract. Right now close to half the regionals are signing concessionary contracts, then RAH could easily file for CH11 to get rid of Frontier and get their labor "cost" in order. You guys are standing in an island of your own, you guys what your accounts have the best "most expensive" contract out there and could easily end up like most of us. Your company has half a billion in cash, for a corporation the size of SKW that isn't a lot. Many people hang their heads on this money but it means nothing. I hope it doesn't come to that, for the sake of all of us
07-03-2012 | 04:23 AM
#364
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 265
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From: ERJ right
Look, all that some of us are saying is to let management do their job by tryi to squeeze every cent from us, as they should, and let our JNC take as much from the coffers as they can get their hands on. There is an economical medium that will be reached. In fact, I would bet my house that management already has a top dollar amount that they are willing to negotiate. It's their job to make this company profitable, not ours, at least not in the sense of giving them anything from our compensation or work rules.
We don't want ANYTHING less than what we have. The problem as I see it from my admittedly narrow point of view from these forums is that since the crj guys have an inferior contract, they are willing to live with gains for themselves that would be concessions to the ERJ guys' concessionary contract.
We don't want ANYTHING less than what we have. The problem as I see it from my admittedly narrow point of view from these forums is that since the crj guys have an inferior contract, they are willing to live with gains for themselves that would be concessions to the ERJ guys' concessionary contract.
07-03-2012 | 07:42 AM
#365
Banned
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 2,934
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From: EMB 145 CPT
Look, all that some of us are saying is to let management do their job by tryi to squeeze every cent from us, as they should, and let our JNC take as much from the coffers as they can get their hands on. There is an economical medium that will be reached. In fact, I would bet my house that management already has a top dollar amount that they are willing to negotiate. It's their job to make this company profitable, not ours, at least not in the sense of giving them anything from our compensation or work rules.
We don't want ANYTHING less than what we have. The problem as I see it from my admittedly narrow point of view from these forums is that since the crj guys have an inferior contract, they are willing to live with gains for themselves that would be concessions to the ERJ guys' concessionary contract.
We don't want ANYTHING less than what we have. The problem as I see it from my admittedly narrow point of view from these forums is that since the crj guys have an inferior contract, they are willing to live with gains for themselves that would be concessions to the ERJ guys' concessionary contract.
07-03-2012 | 07:49 AM
#366
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 206
Likes: 0
From: Not sure anymore
Sorry if it offended you but it's true. I can only think a couple things in your contract that I would want. So no, I didn't mean to say that everything in your contract is inferior. My point is that since, overall, your contract is inferior, the crj guys seem willing to settle for gains that are concessions for the ERJ guys.
Last edited by Kalamazoo; 07-03-2012 at 08:04 AM.
07-03-2012 | 09:17 AM
#367
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 240
Likes: 0
From: Catching breathe
Agreed. With our aging fleet / maintenance delays, it would be nice to have duty rigs that apply.
A few more that I would like to see for the CRJ guys and ERJ if applies.
-Reduction of RRR per month for the reserve pilots.
-Deadhead pay is block or greater (pay like you flew it which covers MX and weather delays).
-Increase in min day
-Reduction in the percentage of 4 day trips.
A few more that I would like to see for the CRJ guys and ERJ if applies.
-Reduction of RRR per month for the reserve pilots.
-Deadhead pay is block or greater (pay like you flew it which covers MX and weather delays).
-Increase in min day
-Reduction in the percentage of 4 day trips.
07-03-2012 | 09:19 AM
#368
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 206
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From: Not sure anymore
07-03-2012 | 10:44 AM
#369
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Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 283
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I like how all you guys argue about contracts as if the survival of the company is dependent only on pilot contract and pay. There are so many other variables to consider. How about the cost of management, for one? How much money would SkyWest and XJT collectively save by having one management group? No, we don't talk about that though. We choose to argue about whether or not the small dollar differences in pay and other BS will sink the company like the Titanic.
Wanna know what I think? I think anyone on the labor side of the fence who thinks one of their coworkers is "too expensive" should be shot. That's why this industry has gone nowhere but she sh*tter for the longest time, because we have too many sallies who are willing to bend over and take it time and time again in order to salvage managements cluster you-know-what. This profession will not improve if there are an abundance of people who think like that.
Wanna know what else I think? I think as long as I'm on duty, I should be getting my hourly wage. What an idea - Getting paid for the entire time you're at work. That's what happened when I was working at a local grocery store for 5 years (I did plenty of sitting around there too), while I was doing other side jobs as a CFI, and not to mention it's what a majority of the rest of the world does! But that could never happen at an airline though, because pilots in general are the best at being brainwashed by management's BS. "We can't afford to do that...See, GoJets can get away with that because they make 2 dollars less an hour than you do...blah blah blah." Kiss my a$$!
Part of the reason I came to ExpressJet was because their pay and work rules seemed to be equal to, if not better than the regional industry average. I fully realized when I came here that there's a strong possibility that I could be here for much longer than I expected (we already have enough 6-7 year FOs on property...) so while we're stuck here we need to keep all we can, not give away that we have in an effort to "stay competitive", because there is a chance we could be stuck here for the rest of our careers! Plus, anybody who thinks they are going to be getting anything back from management because they took concessions is a moron.
As far as reaching for the moon - It's what you do during any contract negotiation. Have any of you guys ever seen an episode of Pawn Stars? You go into the negotiation asking much more than what you really want. You fight for it as hard as you can, and then when you get a counter offer that isn't exactly what you asked for (except it's much better than the minimum of what you were going to accept), you shake hands and the deal is done.
Plus, The ERJ guys are ALREADY WORKING UNDER A CONCESSIONARY CONTRACT. Do any of you people really think we're going to sign off on anything that isn't better than what we already have?
End rant...I know I'm just a noob at this 121 thing...haven't even been at the company for a year, probably won't be eligible to vote on the TA, but I know enough about life in general that when I see a bunch of people cowering in fear over whether or not they should fight for QOL improvements in order to save the company it makes me want to absolutely puke. Grow some balls people.
Wanna know what I think? I think anyone on the labor side of the fence who thinks one of their coworkers is "too expensive" should be shot. That's why this industry has gone nowhere but she sh*tter for the longest time, because we have too many sallies who are willing to bend over and take it time and time again in order to salvage managements cluster you-know-what. This profession will not improve if there are an abundance of people who think like that.
Wanna know what else I think? I think as long as I'm on duty, I should be getting my hourly wage. What an idea - Getting paid for the entire time you're at work. That's what happened when I was working at a local grocery store for 5 years (I did plenty of sitting around there too), while I was doing other side jobs as a CFI, and not to mention it's what a majority of the rest of the world does! But that could never happen at an airline though, because pilots in general are the best at being brainwashed by management's BS. "We can't afford to do that...See, GoJets can get away with that because they make 2 dollars less an hour than you do...blah blah blah." Kiss my a$$!
Part of the reason I came to ExpressJet was because their pay and work rules seemed to be equal to, if not better than the regional industry average. I fully realized when I came here that there's a strong possibility that I could be here for much longer than I expected (we already have enough 6-7 year FOs on property...) so while we're stuck here we need to keep all we can, not give away that we have in an effort to "stay competitive", because there is a chance we could be stuck here for the rest of our careers! Plus, anybody who thinks they are going to be getting anything back from management because they took concessions is a moron.
As far as reaching for the moon - It's what you do during any contract negotiation. Have any of you guys ever seen an episode of Pawn Stars? You go into the negotiation asking much more than what you really want. You fight for it as hard as you can, and then when you get a counter offer that isn't exactly what you asked for (except it's much better than the minimum of what you were going to accept), you shake hands and the deal is done.
Plus, The ERJ guys are ALREADY WORKING UNDER A CONCESSIONARY CONTRACT. Do any of you people really think we're going to sign off on anything that isn't better than what we already have?
End rant...I know I'm just a noob at this 121 thing...haven't even been at the company for a year, probably won't be eligible to vote on the TA, but I know enough about life in general that when I see a bunch of people cowering in fear over whether or not they should fight for QOL improvements in order to save the company it makes me want to absolutely puke. Grow some balls people.
07-03-2012 | 10:50 AM
#370
Banned
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,134
Likes: 0
I like how all you guys argue about contracts as if the survival of the company is dependent only on pilot contract and pay. There are so many other variables to consider. How about the cost of management, for one? How much money would SkyWest and XJT collectively save by having one management group? No, we don't talk about that though. We choose to argue about whether or not the small dollar differences in pay and other BS will sink the company like the Titanic.
Wanna know what I think? I think anyone on the labor side of the fence who thinks one of their coworkers is "too expensive" should be shot. That's why this industry has gone nowhere but she sh*tter for the longest time, because we have too many sallies who are willing to bend over and take it time and time again in order to salvage managements cluster you-know-what. This profession will not improve if there are an abundance of people who think like that.
Wanna know what else I think? I think as long as I'm on duty, I should be getting my hourly wage. What an idea - Getting paid for the entire time you're at work. That's what happened when I was working at a local grocery store for 5 years (I did plenty of sitting around there too), while I was doing other side jobs as a CFI, and not to mention it's what a majority of the rest of the world does! But that could never happen at an airline though, because pilots in general are the best at being brainwashed by management's BS. "We can't afford to do that...See, GoJets can get away with that because they make 2 dollars less an hour than you do...blah blah blah." Kiss my a$$!
Part of the reason I came to ExpressJet was because their pay and work rules seemed to be equal to, if not better than the regional industry average. I fully realized when I came here that there's a strong possibility that I could be here for much longer than I expected (we already have enough 6-7 year FOs on property...) so while we're stuck here we need to keep all we can, not give away that we have in an effort to "stay competitive", because there is a chance we could be stuck here for the rest of our careers! Plus, anybody who thinks they are going to be getting anything back from management because they took concessions is a moron.
As far as reaching for the moon - It's what you do during any contract negotiation. Have any of you guys ever seen an episode of Pawn Stars? You go into the negotiation asking much more than what you really want. You fight for it as hard as you can, and then when you get a counter offer that isn't exactly what you asked for (except it's much better than the minimum of what you were going to accept), you shake hands and the deal is done.
Plus, The ERJ guys are ALREADY WORKING UNDER A CONCESSIONARY CONTRACT. Do any of you people really think we're going to sign off on anything that isn't better than what we already have?
End rant...I know I'm just a noob at this 121 thing...haven't even been at the company for a year, probably won't be eligible to vote on the TA, but I know enough about life in general that when I see a bunch of people cowering in fear over whether or not they should fight for QOL improvements in order to save the company it makes me want to absolutely puke. Grow some balls people.
Wanna know what I think? I think anyone on the labor side of the fence who thinks one of their coworkers is "too expensive" should be shot. That's why this industry has gone nowhere but she sh*tter for the longest time, because we have too many sallies who are willing to bend over and take it time and time again in order to salvage managements cluster you-know-what. This profession will not improve if there are an abundance of people who think like that.
Wanna know what else I think? I think as long as I'm on duty, I should be getting my hourly wage. What an idea - Getting paid for the entire time you're at work. That's what happened when I was working at a local grocery store for 5 years (I did plenty of sitting around there too), while I was doing other side jobs as a CFI, and not to mention it's what a majority of the rest of the world does! But that could never happen at an airline though, because pilots in general are the best at being brainwashed by management's BS. "We can't afford to do that...See, GoJets can get away with that because they make 2 dollars less an hour than you do...blah blah blah." Kiss my a$$!
Part of the reason I came to ExpressJet was because their pay and work rules seemed to be equal to, if not better than the regional industry average. I fully realized when I came here that there's a strong possibility that I could be here for much longer than I expected (we already have enough 6-7 year FOs on property...) so while we're stuck here we need to keep all we can, not give away that we have in an effort to "stay competitive", because there is a chance we could be stuck here for the rest of our careers! Plus, anybody who thinks they are going to be getting anything back from management because they took concessions is a moron.
As far as reaching for the moon - It's what you do during any contract negotiation. Have any of you guys ever seen an episode of Pawn Stars? You go into the negotiation asking much more than what you really want. You fight for it as hard as you can, and then when you get a counter offer that isn't exactly what you asked for (except it's much better than the minimum of what you were going to accept), you shake hands and the deal is done.
Plus, The ERJ guys are ALREADY WORKING UNDER A CONCESSIONARY CONTRACT. Do any of you people really think we're going to sign off on anything that isn't better than what we already have?
End rant...I know I'm just a noob at this 121 thing...haven't even been at the company for a year, probably won't be eligible to vote on the TA, but I know enough about life in general that when I see a bunch of people cowering in fear over whether or not they should fight for QOL improvements in order to save the company it makes me want to absolutely puke. Grow some balls people.
As far as the bolded part, it's "80 million dollars in synergies" according to the crap they sold to the shareholders, etc when the deal was going through. Amazing how many people have such a short memory on this stuff. NOT talking about you FDX, it's all the other "we have to be cost competitive" or the "where is the money going to come from?" doom and gloom/head in the sand/easily brainwashed/kool aid drinkers.
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