Does this birdie also say if the 50's that are going to fly for AMR are operated by ASA or Eagle or someone else?

 

No ditching training require for extended over water ops, the only training that is required is that crew members set instruction and demo life vest usage. Also a life vest for each passenger on the plane. I remember watching some video, but that was years ago.

There are some procedures that are train by memo, like route or A/C requirements (flight conducted above FL250, within 162nm of shore between such and such Latitudes), as well as having the flig attendants brief pax on life vest usage before traveling greater than 50nm off shore.

Not a big deal from a line pilots point of view.

 

I fly with a lot of guys who have been here 20+ years and it doesn't surprise me when they are afraid to rock the boat -- but why in the world would FOs making 30-40k be worried about a "sustainable" contract? Why does everyone complain about pay, scheduling, and the general way we are treated by the company, but as soon as there is an opportunity to work toward improvements, we allow fear and negativity to overcome reason. Jerry & Co. know how to make money, so why don't we let them worry about that, while we all work toward improving our own situation. I'm afraid our expectations have been so thoroughly managed that we've actually become convinced that the way we're treated is for our own good.

 

the FO's are worried about a sustainable contract because we have NO interest in being 10 year FO's and we want nothing better than to get out of this god forsaken regional industry. Most captains around this place were able to upgrade between 2 - 4 years, now its 7+, if you cant understand why we want growth and expansion, then you have gotten too comfortable being a lifer captain.

 

I don't think we would continue to lease the airplanes for other pilots to fly. It would be us if this is true.

 

The birdies in the training department and the guys who write our manuals have no clue why they are being asked to do so, but our -200 department is being set up so that we can perform extended over water operations. We can obviously let the rumor mill fly on from there!

 

I use to think the same way when I was an f/o. The problem with your theory is that you're willing to trade growth for anything (please see gojets), but you don't take into account the possibility that even with growth the list can still stagnate and you would be left to work under a ****ty contract. Upgrade on the crj side is close to 7 years as you mentioned, and even if the lists were integrated today; you'd still have fences and other protections. You're also making the assumption that upgrading will guarantee you a job at a major shortly thereafter, another rookie mistake, look at the past 10 years in this industry. It's in the best interest of all to have a leading contract, profitability is up to management.

 

Just me thinking out loud, let's say that is for AA flying... The Bahamas don't require overwater ops neither does EYW! So if it was to take the flying from Eagle in MIA I don't see a reason (the birds Eagle have in MIA don't have the rafts since we don't serve any routes that require it) If it was to take the flying for Eagle in SJU, the -200 can't get in and out of the airports that AMR would need Tortolla and Dominica. Also Eagle is certified for overwater ops but the life rafts have been removed so we must comply with the 50 nm of any pebble! How would the 200 do with all the life rafts on board? I mean what performance penalty would it take?

 

The Delta TA passed a few days ago, and when I came to work today all the 50-seaters had vanished just like the ERJ pilots warned us!

The only thing that suggests PMASA will lose tons of airframes and furlough and downgrade over the three-year scope transition period is the ignorance-flavored kool-aid coming out of the Houston ALPA offices.

 

Alright, EDITED BY ACL, let's look at a couple case studies in which the unions ended up shooting themselves in the foot with this mentality.

The Boeing machinists union has for decades been a very hostile/greedy group that chanted that very line about how the company should keep itself profitable but they also deserve huge wage hikes. The two are mutually exclusive, and the union discovered that the hard way when their jobs were sent to non-union workers in South Carolina. Oops. Maybe they should have played ball so they could keep their jobs.

The auto industry was brought down mainly by greedy unions. We don't need to go into detail because everyone knows how well compensated auto machinists were when they helped cause GM and Chrysler to go tango uniform.

Yes, it's the pilots jobs to look out for themselves, but not to the extent that it brings the company down. Obviously the company would never sign a TA that would put it out of business. But say--hypothetically--some XJTALPA-flavored kool-aid drinkers are able to organize pilots to defeat a reasonable, competitive TA (hypothetically, since we don't know whether the TA will be reasonable or competitive yet, because we haven't read it, and therefore we can't legitimately say whether we'll vote yes or no), the company will either have to waste a lot of time negotiating a new TA that raises our costs significantly and prices us--and our jobs--out of the market, or continue with the status quo which may end with the same result for one or both pre-merger sides.

Yes, airline pilots deserve to be paid more than they are, and yes we deserve mainline-style work rules at the regionals. But we are living in reality, not a Democrat/left-wing dreamland where we get everything we deserve. There are snakes in the grass in the form of shady ultra low cost regionals (e.g., BlowJetz) that will take our flying in an instant if we price ourselves out of the market. And then you won't have your "snapback" because you don't even have a job.

And believe me, knowing Jerry and the St George gang, things will surely *not* work out in PMXJT's and reacharound's favor if they scuttle the TA. That's just the reality of the situation.