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Old 10-09-2019, 07:57 PM
  #741  
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Originally Posted by Notarealpilot View Post
One, we donít plan ahead at Frontier and two, we donít communicate so thatís the best I think anyone can tell you.
Accurate

Filler
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Old 10-09-2019, 09:53 PM
  #742  
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Jumping in on the legacy discussion. As long as I'm an FO, I'm going to keep the bait out there to see what hits. Now, they haven't called yet, but you never know.

Gaining seniority here is predicated on growth. Will the planes keep coming, probably. There is a chance there could be a hiccup down the line for any number of reasons. Gaining seniority at a legacy is predicated on retirements. Will pilots have to retire, yes. There is a chance that age 67 could pass and we kick the can for 2 more years.

Not to mention all the benefits that are slightly better (pay rates) to quite a bit better (LTD) that add up over the years. I'm a commuter, so I'd be doing that anyway. Now, once my number is called to upgrade, that'll make it a very hard decision to leave.
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Old 10-10-2019, 04:36 AM
  #743  
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While itís true F9 doesnít have the same kind of retirement numbers as the legacies, it does have significant retirements over the coming decades.

Based on a quick estimate from the oct seniority list, 248 pilots will retire in the next 10 years. Thatís about 17% of the current list. That may not be as significant for new hires, but for anyone whoís been here 2 or more years and already experienced a rapid seniority boost from growth, the retirements are meaningful.

For guys here more than two years, the growth weíve already experienced plus the upcoming retirements will probably match the seniority progression theyíd have by going to a legacy. If we also get the forecast growth thatís still on the books, then these pilots should far outstrip the seniority progression (based on percentages, which is what really matters) of their peers at legacy carriers.
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Old 10-10-2019, 05:37 AM
  #744  
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If you're going to compare pay, it's done at min guarantee. Everything else is just filler.

So 75 hours at x hourly rate.

Anyone who says they are out earning a legacy pilot are either liars, line check airmen, or have zero life and are constantly adjusting their schedule (we do have great work rules). Yeah we got a big pay out between 40-60k....that's what a Delta pilot gets every year in profit sharing.

So for people coming here, this place does have good work rules and great crews so if you live in base it's great. Otherwise I'd be trying real hard for something else. SWA is about to open contract talks, United is in talks, and I believe Delta is about to open soon as well (all 3 currently pay more per hour per seat). Maybe somebody can chime in on that. If you're a commuter, it's a lot easier to commute on your own metal as I'm sure you know.
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Old 10-10-2019, 06:54 AM
  #745  
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Therapysession is correct.

The inflated YTD earnings being posted here are just that... inflated. Personally, my YTD is inflated by about $115,000 due to cancelled vacation payout and the signing bonus payout. Itís easy to show high numbers with these kinds of abnormal windfalls.

I donít buy into the concept that weíre on par with the legacies based on the theory that we can make legacy money by working harder. Thatís not the same. Monthly guaranty multiplied by hourly rate is really the only fair comparison. Beyond that, compare our 12% 401k contribution. Compare our profit sharing. Compare our average TAFB versus a legacy schedule.

But donít tell me all I have to do is work 20% more and Iíll make legacy income.
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Old 10-10-2019, 07:24 AM
  #746  
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Originally Posted by therapysession View Post
If you're going to compare pay, it's done at min guarantee. Everything else is just filler.

So 75 hours at x hourly rate.

Anyone who says they are out earning a legacy pilot are either liars, line check airmen, or have zero life and are constantly adjusting their schedule (we do have great work rules). Yeah we got a big pay out between 40-60k....that's what a Delta pilot gets every year in profit sharing.

So for people coming here, this place does have good work rules and great crews so if you live in base it's great. Otherwise I'd be trying real hard for something else. SWA is about to open contract talks, United is in talks, and I believe Delta is about to open soon as well (all 3 currently pay more per hour per seat). Maybe somebody can chime in on that. If you're a commuter, it's a lot easier to commute on your own metal as I'm sure you know.
Not really. If pilot "A" blocks 75 hours and credits 75 hours average per month, and pilot "B" blocks 75 and credits 90 hours per month on average, you can't just use your formula. Throw in average days off and TAFB to make things more complicated and more accurate in comparing situations.
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Old 10-10-2019, 08:49 AM
  #747  
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Originally Posted by therapysession View Post
If you're going to compare pay, it's done at min guarantee. Everything else is just filler.

So 75 hours at x hourly rate.

Anyone who says they are out earning a legacy pilot are either liars, line check airmen, or have zero life and are constantly adjusting their schedule (we do have great work rules). Yeah we got a big pay out between 40-60k....that's what a Delta pilot gets every year in profit sharing.

So for people coming here, this place does have good work rules and great crews so if you live in base it's great. Otherwise I'd be trying real hard for something else. SWA is about to open contract talks, United is in talks, and I believe Delta is about to open soon as well (all 3 currently pay more per hour per seat). Maybe somebody can chime in on that. If you're a commuter, it's a lot easier to commute on your own metal as I'm sure you know.
Are you still at F9 ?
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Old 10-10-2019, 09:48 AM
  #748  
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Originally Posted by RustyChain View Post
Not really. If pilot "A" blocks 75 hours and credits 75 hours average per month, and pilot "B" blocks 75 and credits 90 hours per month on average, you can't just use your formula.
I dont know if you're meaning it this way, but legacies can block 75 and credit 90 too. Yeah, it's cool we can do that at F9, but other places can do it too with varying degrees of success. I've heard UA isnt great about dropping and swapping but I dont have first hand knowledge.
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Old 10-10-2019, 10:01 AM
  #749  
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Originally Posted by FlyingR6 View Post
I dont know if you're meaning it this way, but legacies can block 75 and credit 90 too. Yeah, it's cool we can do that at F9, but other places can do it too with varying degrees of success. I've heard UA isnt great about dropping and swapping but I dont have first hand knowledge.
I'm aware that soft time is everywhere to a greater or lesser extent. You can't just compare min guarantee. I'm not delusion, I know delta pilots make more than me.
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Old 10-10-2019, 04:09 PM
  #750  
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Someone should try to calculate master seniority list comparison for someone hired today at Frontier vs Delta over the next decade.

Based on our more than double growth but few retirement and delta retirements but little growth.

And then everyone could chime and and criticize your math. Any takers?
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