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Old 08-01-2014, 10:33 AM
  #5711  
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Originally Posted by RhinoPherret View Post
Not buying this guy’s lame excuse.

The immediate words and actions taken when the incident occurred by him, his further ramblings later after the incident, the canned responses by his attorney (his attorney obviously had nothing to work with to enforce this guy's innocent pleading). Couple this with his statement in court: "Whatever the sentence is, I will accept it". That is the standard statement to make in court (he was advised by his attorney to make it) when you know you are guilty and could go down for some serious time.
The canned responses by his attorney? Oh yes, let's definately use that to determine guilt. In fact, anyone who "lawyers up" is probably guilty, right?

Saying he will accept a sentence, after being told to say that, is also an indicator of guilt? Would it have helped "prove his innocence" (should that even be a thing anyway?) if he had said "nah, I don't accept the results of the court, so I'm just walking out"?

So someone accuses someone of something, we just better assume guilt and prosecute, convict and punish accordingly because hey, if they were innocent they wouldn't have been charged in the first place, right?
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Old 08-01-2014, 10:54 AM
  #5712  
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Originally Posted by gloopy View Post
The canned responses by his attorney? Oh yes, let's definately use that to determine guilt. In fact, anyone who "lawyers up" is probably guilty, right?

Saying he will accept a sentence, after being told to say that, is also an indicator of guilt? Would it have helped "prove his innocence" (should that even be a thing anyway?) if he had said "nah, I don't accept the results of the court, so I'm just walking out"?

So someone accuses someone of something, we just better assume guilt and prosecute, convict and punish accordingly because hey, if they were innocent they wouldn't have been charged in the first place, right?
Sorry that you totally do not understand what I presented as is evidenced in your response paragraphs.

I just base my opinion off of spending a great deal of the 20 years of my first career with my butt parked in court rooms dealing with judges, prosecuting and defense attorneys, and lest we forget, all the wonderful folks ushered into the criminal justice system with all of their wonderful tales of woe.

You can call me jaded or a realist, at your pleasure.
Cheers!
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Old 08-01-2014, 10:54 AM
  #5713  
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DELTA, Don't Ever Lift The Armrest.
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Old 08-01-2014, 11:02 AM
  #5714  
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Originally Posted by RhinoPherret View Post
Sorry that you totally do not understand what I presented as is evidenced in your response paragraphs.

I just base my opinion off of spending a great deal of the 20 years of my first career with my butt parked in court rooms dealing with judges, prosecuting and defense attorneys, and lest we forget, all the wonderful folks ushered into the criminal justice system with all of their wonderful tales of woe.

You can call me jaded or a realist, at your pleasure.
Cheers!
All suspects are guilty, period. Otherwise they wouldn't be suspects, would they?
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Old 08-01-2014, 11:20 AM
  #5715  
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Every single one of us, Lnl and Rhino included, would expect and demand that a conviction, forever changing our lives for the worse, be based upon more than just the claims of our accuser. Obviously, I wasn't at the trial. But there isn't a whole lot in the news about this aside from her accusations. Isn't it reasonable to assume that a young girl woke up with stranger's hand in her lap and blew it out of proportion? That seems much more reasonable than some sober guy molesting a young girl in plain sight in the back of a crowded airplane. That's the story I'm not buying, Rhino.
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Old 08-01-2014, 12:07 PM
  #5716  
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Originally Posted by thevagabond View Post
Every single one of us, Lnl and Rhino included, would expect and demand that a conviction, forever changing our lives for the worse, be based upon more than just the claims of our accuser. Obviously, I wasn't at the trial. But there isn't a whole lot in the news about this aside from her accusations. Isn't it reasonable to assume that a young girl woke up with stranger's hand in her lap and blew it out of proportion? That seems much more reasonable than some sober guy molesting a young girl in plain sight in the back of a crowded airplane. That's the story I'm not buying, Rhino.
That might be reasonable to assume, if that had been where is hand was. My understanding is that is hand was not in her lap, but underneath her. "On the October 2013 Delta Airlines flight, the teenager awoke from a nap and felt Pascal's hand under her, gripping her buttocks, she said, according to court documents." Even if your hand flops around all over the place while you sleep, it's not going to accidentally go from your lap, down between you and the person next to you, then inadvertently slide under the other passenger, ending up between her butt and her bottom seat seat cushion.
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Old 08-01-2014, 12:20 PM
  #5717  
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Originally Posted by thevagabond View Post
Every single one of us, Lnl and Rhino included, would expect and demand that a conviction, forever changing our lives for the worse, be based upon more than just the claims of our accuser. Obviously, I wasn't at the trial. But there isn't a whole lot in the news about this aside from her accusations. Isn't it reasonable to assume that a young girl woke up with stranger's hand in her lap and blew it out of proportion? That seems much more reasonable than some sober guy molesting a young girl in plain sight in the back of a crowded airplane. That's the story I'm not buying, Rhino.
Correct. There isn’t a whole lot in this article aside from the victim’s accusations and the some words spoken by the defense attorney and the person found guilty.

Trying to base a decision off of a news report is guessing at best. No one knows the facts behind this case other than the defense and prosecuting attorneys, judge, and the person found guilty. All the facts were not presented in this news article as they never are. I base my opinion on my experiences within the criminal justice/court systems.

To file charges against a person, a case has to clear the hurdle of the investigating law enforcement officer(s), then, the assigned detective(s), their boss, the assigned prosecuting district attorney and his/her boss also. It takes so much to work a case through this process that many cases never progress to even make it before a judge, let alone a trial. Folks in this process are always looking to see if there is any merit to the case going forward or stopped in each step of the process. Thus, I am quite sure there is far more evidence in this conviction than we will ever know. Victims statements alone do not determine if a case is filed let alone goes to trial.

As a side note: If you have dealt with molestation cases, this one truly does not fit a “first time” incident with a person in this age group. Since the person was found guilty, this has the strong possibility of not being a first time incident of this nature (charged or discovered at least). Something to think about.
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Old 08-01-2014, 12:22 PM
  #5718  
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Originally Posted by DrivinTheDash View Post
That might be reasonable to assume, if that had been where is hand was. My understanding is that is hand was not in her lap, but underneath her. "On the October 2013 Delta Airlines flight, the teenager awoke from a nap and felt Pascal's hand under her, gripping her buttocks, she said, according to court documents." Even if your hand flops around all over the place while you sleep, it's not going to accidentally go from your lap, down between you and the person next to you, then inadvertently slide under the other passenger, ending up between her butt and her bottom seat seat cushion.
She's sitting in the window seat, he's in the middle seat. It's not so hard to imagine that she may have been sleeping up against the window, and thus leaving some of her seat open. His hand may have flopped in to the open seat, and when she moved, could have easily sat on the guys hand. The reason this guy is going to prison, is the fact he said he raised the armrest. Had he not done that, his defense would have held. However, the fact that he had no prior history to this, makes me side with the accidental contact explanation. The guy has a teenage daughter himself.

In a case like this, the girl has strong motivation to lie, because if he is found guilty, she is now going to be a millionaire.
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Old 08-01-2014, 03:11 PM
  #5719  
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Originally Posted by Mesabah View Post
She's sitting in the window seat, he's in the middle seat. It's not so hard to imagine that she may have been sleeping up against the window, and thus leaving some of her seat open. His hand may have flopped in to the open seat, and when she moved, could have easily sat on the guys hand. The reason this guy is going to prison, is the fact he said he raised the armrest. Had he not done that, his defense would have held. However, the fact that he had no prior history to this, makes me side with the accidental contact explanation. The guy has a teenage daughter himself.

In a case like this, the girl has strong motivation to lie, because if he is found guilty, she is now going to be a millionaire.

...and if it REALLY happened and she's NOT lying, she's somewhat damaged at a young age. Oh, btw, HE also has a strong motivation to lie to save HIS butt.

Just curious about the dudes defending a fellow pilot....do you have children, more importantly, young daughters?
The argument that he has a daughter himself is bs as my daughter was sexually harrassed (including inappropriate touching) by a man old enough to be her father who had TWO daughters around my daughter's age. So much for that dumb theory.....
(this was by a "man" her father knows....she was also recently harrassed via texts by another "man" her father knows through work. To say molesters are sick is an understatement, they just can't control themselves no matter the circumstances).
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Old 08-01-2014, 03:51 PM
  #5720  
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Originally Posted by LNL76 View Post
...and if it REALLY happened and she's NOT lying, she's somewhat damaged at a young age. Oh, btw, HE also has a strong motivation to lie to save HIS butt.

Just curious about the dudes defending a fellow pilot....do you have children, more importantly, young daughters?
The argument that he has a daughter himself is bs as my daughter was sexually harrassed (including inappropriate touching) by a man old enough to be her father who had TWO daughters around my daughter's age. So much for that dumb theory.....
(this was by a "man" her father knows....she was also recently harrassed via texts by another "man" her father knows through work. To say molesters are sick is an understatement, they just can't control themselves no matter the circumstances).
I'm not defending molesters, I'm saying I could possibly see this scenario as being an accident. Furthermore, I don't think the airline should have to pay out big money either because of this incident. I highly, highly doubt this incident would have gone to court if there wasn't a massive financial incentive to do so.

Don't worry though, the prison code states this pilot is going to get 100 fold for what he's in there for.
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