System bid
06-12-2019 | 10:51 PM
#211
Line Holder
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 1,050
Likes: 32
At UPS we have 757/767 domestic and 757/767 international domiciles both in SDF. They are separate. Also combined 757/767 PacRim/domestic domicile in ONT and 757/767 S America/domestic domicile in MIA. Our other international fleets (MD-11, 747) are not split international and domestic. The A300 is domestic only. So there is some validity to this statement. Probably depends on your local CMO and their preferences.
06-13-2019 | 05:34 AM
#212
The REAL Bluedriver
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 6,935
Likes: 0
From: Airbus Capt
At UPS we have 757/767 domestic and 757/767 international domiciles both in SDF. They are separate. Also combined 757/767 PacRim/domestic domicile in ONT and 757/767 S America/domestic domicile in MIA. Our other international fleets (MD-11, 747) are not split international and domestic. The A300 is domestic only. So there is some validity to this statement. Probably depends on your local CMO and their preferences.
Are you saying at UPS that some pilots require "currency and skill" to fly ETOPS, but some don't?
06-13-2019 | 06:40 AM
#213
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,386
Likes: 0
From: 320 F.O.
I read it as within each of the mentioned domiciles there are essential different bases. ETOPS qualified & current and non ETOPS qualified positions separates the bases. Imagine if FLL had 2 bases within the domicile 1 base has all the below the red line qualified pilots (these pilots almost exclusively would fly below the red line stuff) and the other base has no one qualified for below the red line flying and fly all the other flying. Then you might have BOS and JFK that are ETOPS qualified but do mixed ETOPS and non ETOPS flying but still have to maintain currency. Different needs for different bases makes sense. My understanding is it’s pretty common among international ETOPS qualified carriers. I read no contradictions there just clear as mud.
Last edited by Climbto450; 06-13-2019 at 06:51 AM. Reason: I suck at writing
06-13-2019 | 06:43 AM
#214
The REAL Bluedriver
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 6,935
Likes: 0
From: Airbus Capt
I read it as within each of the mentioned domiciles there are essential different bases. ETOPS qualified & current and non ETOPS qualified positions separates the bases. Imagine if FLL had 2 bases within the domicile 1 base has all the below the red line qualified pilots and the other base has no one qualified for below the red line flying and fly all the other flying. I read no contradictions there just clear as mud��
Yes, he said SDF is separate, but the other bases are mixed.
06-13-2019 | 07:42 AM
#217
The REAL Bluedriver
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 6,935
Likes: 0
From: Airbus Capt
I read it as within each of the mentioned domiciles there are essential different bases. ETOPS qualified & current and non ETOPS qualified positions separates the bases. Imagine if FLL had 2 bases within the domicile 1 base has all the below the red line qualified pilots (these pilots almost exclusively would fly below the red line stuff) and the other base has no one qualified for below the red line flying and fly all the other flying. Then you might have BOS and JFK that are ETOPS qualified but do mixed ETOPS and non ETOPS flying but still have to maintain currency. Different needs for different bases makes sense. My understanding is it’s pretty common among international ETOPS qualified carriers. I read no contradictions there just clear as mud.
A mixed base, as they do at United, only requires annual recurrent training to meet the FARs/ETOPS requirements (including currency).
So no, having ETOPS pilots separate from domestic because of "currency and skill" is NOT "required". It may be the way a company wants to run it's operation, and that company may even make that part of it's ETOPS application/certification, but it is NOT required.
So there would be no "validity" to the statement that ETOPS requires a separate bid class due to "currency and skill".
In the responders own post, he said UPS does run some domiciles as mixed domestic/long haul. So only some ups pilots require "currency and skill" to fly ETOPS, but others don't.
06-13-2019 | 07:46 AM
#218
The REAL Bluedriver
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 6,935
Likes: 0
From: Airbus Capt
06-13-2019 | 07:49 AM
#219
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 2,088
Likes: 12
The past three have been 48 hours if my memory serves me right....but yeah, who knows with this one. My prediction isn’t aging well 😂
06-13-2019 | 07:54 AM
#220
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,386
Likes: 0
From: 320 F.O.
I see you edited your post after I responded to try and invalidate my response.
A mixed base, as they do at United, only requires annual recurrent training to meet the FARs/ETOPS requirements (including currency).
So no, having ETOPS pilots separate from domestic because of "currency and skill" is NOT "required". It may be the way a company wants to run it's operation, and that company may even make that part of it's ETOPS application/certification, but it is NOT required.
So there would be no "validity" to the statement that ETOPS requires a separate bid class due to "currency and skill".
In the responders own post, he said UPS does run some domiciles as mixed domestic/long haul. So only some ups pilots require "currency and skill" to fly ETOPS, but others don't.
A mixed base, as they do at United, only requires annual recurrent training to meet the FARs/ETOPS requirements (including currency).
So no, having ETOPS pilots separate from domestic because of "currency and skill" is NOT "required". It may be the way a company wants to run it's operation, and that company may even make that part of it's ETOPS application/certification, but it is NOT required.
So there would be no "validity" to the statement that ETOPS requires a separate bid class due to "currency and skill".
In the responders own post, he said UPS does run some domiciles as mixed domestic/long haul. So only some ups pilots require "currency and skill" to fly ETOPS, but others don't.
Now back to the actual constructive side of this discussion. ETOPS doesn’t require a separate bid class, it’s how the individual operator wants to manage it. However, like below the red line flying for us it does require currency and training. No one was talking about requiring anything simply posting how other operators choose to manage the same dilemma we will shortly be having. If there is one thing we all understand about JB is that they will do things there own way probably not the way any other carrier does it..
Last edited by Climbto450; 06-13-2019 at 08:21 AM.
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