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Old 03-17-2019, 04:54 PM
  #7741  
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Originally Posted by dontsurf View Post
relevant to this discussion...how would these trips be paid? i used to be in an aa crashpad in ord, and the guys there would fly 3 trips a month. ord-bru-ord or whatever. paid 90 hours or something. worked 9 days a month. how does that work out? and is that what we will also have? (my guess: that is not what we will have).
I'd be willing to bet that at least initially they create 3 day pairings that block/credit about 15hrs. Figure BOS/JFK-UK and back, 6.5-7hr eastbound, 8hr west. Depart early evening from BOS/JFK on Day 1, arrive mid-day on Day 3. Not anything spectacular.
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Old 03-17-2019, 05:42 PM
  #7742  
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Originally Posted by Flyby1206 View Post
I'd be willing to bet that at least initially they create 3 day pairings that block/credit about 15hrs. Figure BOS/JFK-UK and back, 6.5-7hr eastbound, 8hr west. Depart early evening from BOS/JFK on Day 1, arrive mid-day on Day 3. Not anything spectacular.
Agreed.

Maybe a W route 5 day mixing JFK/BOS.

Last edited by Bluedriver; 03-17-2019 at 05:55 PM.
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Old 03-17-2019, 05:44 PM
  #7743  
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Originally Posted by BeatNavy View Post
First, it's not technically a base within a base. Kind of semantics, kind of relevant to the discussion. A special qual class within a base would likely be a little different than a base with in a base (would be assigned SQ pairings but could fly non SQ pairings as well). Also, I don't think JB will have only one Europe destination. It'd be multiple or none I'd think. And SQ (special qual) pairings are only required per the CBA to have one segment to a SQ location. In other words, they could, in theory, have a pairing that goes like this:

Day 1/2 JFK-LHR
Day 3 LHR-BOS
Day 4 BOS-FLL (insert any other location here)
Day 5 FLL-JFK

Not saying it's likely because I have absolutely no idea how they would crack this nut if Europe is announced, but my point is there could, in theory, be some other locations thrown in on the pairings to mitigate that.
What you are saying is possible, but probably not likely. The more non-international flying included in the pairings, the more SQ dudes would need the super-top-secret specialized training, which would partially defeat the purpose of having an SQ subset and unfortunately not be the cheapest solution.
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Old 03-17-2019, 05:52 PM
  #7744  
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Originally Posted by Bluedriver View Post
What you are saying is possible, but probably not likely. The more non-international flying included in the pairings, the more SQ dudes would need the super-top-secret specialized training, which would partially defeat the purpose of having an SQ subset and unfortunately not be the cheapest solution.
I agree, I was just pointing out that it is in theory, according to the CBA, possible for SQ dudes to go to non SQ places in a single SQ pairing and could, in theory, not be relegated to the same few destinations.
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Old 03-17-2019, 05:57 PM
  #7745  
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Originally Posted by BeatNavy View Post
I agree, I was just pointing out that it is in theory, according to the CBA, possible for SQ dudes to go to non SQ places in a single SQ pairing and could, in theory, not be relegated to the same few destinations.
No doubt, it's a good point.

Do you think SQ pilots would be able to bid for non-SQ pairings during the bid? Or just from open time?
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Old 03-17-2019, 06:25 PM
  #7746  
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Originally Posted by Bluedriver View Post
No doubt, it's a good point.

Do you think SQ pilots would be able to bid for non-SQ pairings during the bid? Or just from open time?
I have no idea. Seems difficult in my small cranium to mix SQ/non SQ pilots bidding for a total pool of non SQ pairings in PBS. Seems easier after the results are out to swap than having it in the initial PBS bid. But no clue how the software could handle it. And for the reasons you previously pointed out, if SQ pilots were routinely flying non-SQ pairings, itd only result from overstaffing the SQ class. But I have no clue, I’m just thinking out loud.
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Old 03-17-2019, 06:27 PM
  #7747  
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Originally Posted by BeatNavy View Post
I have no idea. Seems difficult in my small cranium to mix SQ/non SQ pilots bidding for a total pool of non SQ pairings in PBS. Seems easier after the fact. And for the reasons you previously pointed out, if SQ pilots were routinely flying non-SQ pairings, itd only result from overstaffing the SQ class. But I have no clue, I’m just thinking out loud.
I'm seeing it the same way.
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Old 03-17-2019, 07:35 PM
  #7748  
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Originally Posted by dontsurf View Post
relevant to this discussion...how would these trips be paid? i used to be in an aa crashpad in ord, and the guys there would fly 3 trips a month. ord-bru-ord or whatever. paid 90 hours or something. worked 9 days a month. how does that work out? and is that what we will also have? (my guess: that is not what we will have).
Originally Posted by BeatNavy View Post
They will be paid with the CBA's current rigs and work rules. No idea how that would play out with pairings though. I'd guess 3 day pairings for there and back which would probably be in the 17-19 hour range depending on how far east we are talking, or maybe 5 day pairings with other cities mixed in, depending on what the optimizer says is cheapest for the company. I'd be shocked if it averaged 10 hours a day of credit like the example you provided above.

and just for some understanding, since i know some of you guys are way more versed in this stuff, and since i never asked those American pilots why their trips paid 30 hours for just one flight over and one flight back, what must the differences be between their CBA and ours in this regard? what is it that would turn their 3 day trip to brussels and back, for example, into a 30 hour payday, and for us it's only 15 hours?
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Old 03-17-2019, 07:47 PM
  #7749  
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Originally Posted by dontsurf View Post
and just for some understanding, since i know some of you guys are way more versed in this stuff, and since i never asked those American pilots why their trips paid 30 hours for just one flight over and one flight back, what must the differences be between their CBA and ours in this regard? what is it that would turn their 3 day trip to brussels and back, for example, into a 30 hour payday, and for us it's only 15 hours?
No clue. Perhaps he bid reserve at ~75 hour guarantee, got used only one or two trips a month, and picked up a prem trip to bump the guarantee? So he only "worked" 9 days, but was on call others. Their rigs are basically the same as ours, so I don't see how they can credit 10 hrs a day over only 9 work days a month, but I haven't examined their contracts or trips that closely in that regard, so I'm just speculating.
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Old 03-17-2019, 08:12 PM
  #7750  
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Originally Posted by BeatNavy View Post
No clue. Perhaps he bid reserve at ~75 hour guarantee, got used only one or two trips a month, and picked up a prem trip to bump the guarantee? So he only "worked" 9 days, but was on call others. Their rigs are basically the same as ours, so I don't see how they can credit 10 hrs a day over only 9 work days a month, but I haven't examined their contracts or trips that closely in that regard, so I'm just speculating.
interesting. no, it was all the guys in the crashpad. not on reserve. commuting lineholders. I should have asked sometime, I guess. at the time I just thought it had something to do with how long the flights were and rest requirements, etc.
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