The SLI was done to prevent a whipsaw? Seriously??? If the SLI hadn't been done, would you be worried that FAPA pilots would fly your 145, 170, 190's etc. for lower pay than what you are making now? That is completely laughable.

Or the other scenario where BB whipsaws us because RAH pilots agree to fly the airbus for lower rates than FAPA pilots. That seems a little more realistic. However, the SLI was such a career killer for FAPA pilots I think most of us would rather stay separate and take the chance of this happening.

 

car ramrod,

With all due respect, the real career killer for FAPA pilots is not a handful of RAH guys that might trickle over after the 7 year fence is up, it's the fact F9 is the weakest link in Denver between Southwest and United. It's the fact that F9 is being run by a ruthless REGIONAL AIRLINE management team that is quickly proving it has no idea how to turn a profit. It's the fact that F9's product is getting a bad reputation for lack of consistency. It's the fact that your biggest competitor in MKE is Southwest. I guess the list can go on and on as to what your real career killer is. But it's kind of pointless to worry about a stampede of extremely disgruntled RAH pilots coming over to the bus in 7 years, even if you still are in business at that point. I imagine that a huge majority of those guys that you all are so worried about, are going to take the next job offer possible.

None the less, I wish you all the best of luck in the future! You all deserve better than this.

 

BB could come in and say "Hey gang I just farmed out a lot of express flying to Mesa since you wouldn't take cuts on the 70+ seat aircraft. The contract with mesa is allowable under the frontier cba."

 

TD,

You don't get it. F9 can't make money with 145s and 170s, they are killing us. That is why BB is removing them away from the branded side. (I have my doubts about the 190s & 318s, and we can't get seem rid of the 318s.) Since BB is responsible for both sides of the balance sheet, there is no way he is going to bring in another regional to fly for us and loss more money. I suspect next quarterly report you will see things broken out better as far as Airbus and FFD flying. My guess it will tip the scales between the Branded and FFD revenues. Then I predict the IBT will scream this is just a tactic to reduce their bargaining power and BB is cooking the books.

If you are going to make statements about the business side of things you might want to go back to school and get you MBA. Until then your statements sound like a scared little pilot crying "wolf".

Cheers T5

 

Not one to typically defend TD, but....it doesn't take an MBA to read a 10-Q or 10-K, read a Wall Street Journal, watch CNBC, or look at trends to get a good idea what's going on. Or you know, see through an MBA's double-speak.

Besides, unless one has accounting or finance for their specialty, the average state school MBA program does little more than give students a working knowledge of these topics...not innate understanding.

/MBA student

 

Actually it's the entire branded operation that's sinking the ship. 140s, 170s, 190s, and Airbus alike.

The problem with F9 is a REVENUE problem, not cost problem, which is why nobody understands the concessions taken by FAPA. It's a stop gap measure that'll allow BB to continue to mismanage F9 for slightly longer while not addressing the real problem of revenue generation.

You guys are toast. You guys are losing money despite record load factors and the lowest cost structure amongst your competitors in the strongest aviation market we've seen in awhile. What's going to happen when the market inevitably tanks again? BB will come back again begging for more concessions to subsidize his lack of management skills. Tell management to get their house in order and address your gigantic revenue problem.

 

Part of our revenue problem is the fact we are providing jobs for 145 and 170 crews with a large CASM and fuel through the roof. Get them off the branded side make a few more changes and we'll see how it looks then. I just don't understand why you guys don't get it that you are part of our problem.

Cheers T5

 

Something tells me our tiny fleet of 145's makes a very small dent into the much larger problem. Try to buy a ticket on F9, it's too cheap. Try to go MKE-STL or PIT on a Saturday, last flight out leaves way too early. We have a problem because all BB wants to do is compete in two markets that have way too many seats in them. I've been screaming for CVG for a while now, as SWA is not there yet. We'll see.

 

Slum,

I'm well aware of pricing and the network. We have to much competition in Denver with 3 carriers going at it and the other 2 have deep pockets. The DHs are fricking ridiculous these days. I have DHed with my entire crew on 170s twice this month. We are taking up 7%ish of the seats on those flights. We have our problems, but move the little jets over to the FFD side of the balance sheet and the scales will look more balanced. My point is we are taking losses for the FFD side that we shouldn't be taking.

Cheers T5

 

I don't think you're the one that gets it. Maybe you didn't read the post I was responding to. Really what you've stated is a completely different topic. Why BB wants separate list vs why we require them integrated are completely different subjects. Financials change quarterly. A company can be in the red one quarter than in the black another. Just because it's operating in the red now doesn't mean anything regarding our enforcement of scope.

Before BB ever completed the transaction of Frontier he stated he wanted operations kept separate. You're trying to sell me that his game plan from a couple years ago was to purchase the airline, send it deeper into debt, then sell it for less than he bought it for and that's why he's never wanted the SLI? I must need one of those fancy MBA's to understand that one. The SLI didn't happen overnight it started when BB purchased F9 when he had no idea the direction the company was going to take. He might want it separate to sell off now but that's just today's reason. Either way it doesnt matter. He's already wanted to bring Mesa in once.

Losing money or not there are important reasons for the SLI so that scope protections are in place. Oil drops to $50, company makes money, now he wants to expand again and does so with a cheaper labor group. It doesn't hurt to actually think a little further down the road then our management. To not integrate and leave open scope for 100% of the type of flying we directly do makes absolutely no sense.