Jetblue movement...
08-27-2013 | 11:04 AM
#331
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 302
Likes: 0
From: FO
We need better protection. Period. I am not a lawyer, but I really don't think it will raise costs much at all. Now, I also think whether we vote a union in or not to fix sect 15 (and other issues), that is 100% in the hands of management and their decisions. The company is making money and I do believe they can raise labor costs to fix many of the issues. With that being said, the company must be smart about costs. If costs get out of hand for the current market and competition, they will come to us to lower costs. This has happened at every major airline in the last decade, and many of them have went into chapter 11 protection. We all want more money. JB is making a lot of money. I believe we deserve more, but we also need to enjoy being at a growing company that continues to make profits. I don't have a crystal ball to see what the market conditions will be like in 5 or 10 years.
The title of this thread, JetBlue movement, is entirely in the hands of management and their decisions to fix the issues so more of us can call JB a destination carrier with destination benefits. As for me, I enjoy it here but I see there are many things that need to be fixed. Job protection is and will remain the number one item I want fixed.
The title of this thread, JetBlue movement, is entirely in the hands of management and their decisions to fix the issues so more of us can call JB a destination carrier with destination benefits. As for me, I enjoy it here but I see there are many things that need to be fixed. Job protection is and will remain the number one item I want fixed.
08-27-2013 | 11:11 AM
#332
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,007
Likes: 0
Wow, you must have a real need to feel superior to others and to show them you are the big man.
We will have 11 aircraft with a first class. Eleven. Wow.... In addition, the aircraft will have 31 fewer seats, so it remains entirely to be seen if they actually NET more money or not.
Either way, you are a complete Jack-A@@ with your tone toward us. We are NOT the 2nd largest airline in the world. We do not have a worldwide fleet of widebody aircraft subsidizing our pay and benefits. We have not been around for 80 years, and we certainly did NOT make 500 million in profit in July alone.
We are working on unionizing, but it says more about you than us that you feel you need to demean us in this way.
We will have 11 aircraft with a first class. Eleven. Wow.... In addition, the aircraft will have 31 fewer seats, so it remains entirely to be seen if they actually NET more money or not.
Either way, you are a complete Jack-A@@ with your tone toward us. We are NOT the 2nd largest airline in the world. We do not have a worldwide fleet of widebody aircraft subsidizing our pay and benefits. We have not been around for 80 years, and we certainly did NOT make 500 million in profit in July alone.
We are working on unionizing, but it says more about you than us that you feel you need to demean us in this way.
Actually, you tried unionizing.... in house and ALPA. As dues paying ALPA pilot, I am tired of spending my dues dollar waiting for you unprofessional clowns in your blue shirts to figure out what benefactor you want; management or union.
From a non tangible perspective, you guys have been taking the industry benefits to the pilot profession without contributing.... with your lav cleaning and in flight fatigue studies.
... it's gotten old hauling your dead weight around and negotiating against your pathetic pay rates and benefits.Yet, you're welcome on our jumpseat anytime.
08-27-2013 | 11:25 AM
#333
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,045
Likes: 0
What's my point? Are you serious? Really? It is a CLEAR example of how increased costs limit our ability to grow. CLEAR. It doesn't matter if it is MX costs, fuel costs, aircraft rental costs, or labor costs. They ALL have to be paid, and the money to pay them is BY DEFINITION, LIMITED and SCARCE!
You can keep laying out words from your Embry Riddle Business Statistics textbook and make bold statements about JB having an unlimited ability to cover increased labor costs without slowing it's growth rate, but your statements are as accurate as Big Foots last known location.
It is almost impossible how stupid you would have to be to say that costs don't matter and won't change our ability to grow. Almost.
The company already slowed growth for the rest of this year over a MX increase of just 31 million dollars. 31 Million, that is LESS money than it would cost to give you the vacation system you want, so that a bunch of senior guys can get more summer vacation.... Changing ONLY our vacation would cost more than 31 million, and that was enough to slow our growth rate! That doesn't include higher pay rates, 321 pay, health insurance, disability, trip and duty rigs, work rules, reserve rule improvements, retirement, bonus plan..........
You can keep laying out words from your Embry Riddle Business Statistics textbook and make bold statements about JB having an unlimited ability to cover increased labor costs without slowing it's growth rate, but your statements are as accurate as Big Foots last known location.
It is almost impossible how stupid you would have to be to say that costs don't matter and won't change our ability to grow. Almost.
The company already slowed growth for the rest of this year over a MX increase of just 31 million dollars. 31 Million, that is LESS money than it would cost to give you the vacation system you want, so that a bunch of senior guys can get more summer vacation.... Changing ONLY our vacation would cost more than 31 million, and that was enough to slow our growth rate! That doesn't include higher pay rates, 321 pay, health insurance, disability, trip and duty rigs, work rules, reserve rule improvements, retirement, bonus plan..........
Let me help you because for some strange reason, you are attempting to take external variables, internal variables, fixed costs, and labor costs and lump them all together under the heading of "costs".
This is not how it works in our industry!!!
Here's why I asked what your point was about MX costs;
If MGMT wants to go out on a limb and purchase an Aircraft from a second rate manufacturer and risk all, should you be a shock absorber and take the hit in terms of your compensation?
Are other Airlines asking Pilots to accept industry defying cuts to their benefits and continued below average compensation all across the board as a function if MX costs?
Ever wonder why Airline Pilots like the idea of ALPA legal opening the books at their carrier to actually see what is being done with revenue and what is affordable? Or, do just prefer to go on blindly being told your employer "can't" meet the cost of doing business?
Failed model?
JJ
08-27-2013 | 11:30 AM
#334
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,045
Likes: 0
What's my point? Are you serious? Really? It is a CLEAR example of how increased costs limit our ability to grow. CLEAR. It doesn't matter if it is MX costs, fuel costs, aircraft rental costs, or labor costs. They ALL have to be paid, and the money to pay them is BY DEFINITION, LIMITED and SCARCE!
You can keep laying out words from your Embry Riddle Business Statistics textbook and make bold statements about JB having an unlimited ability to cover increased labor costs without slowing it's growth rate, but your statements are as accurate as Big Foots last known location.
It is almost impossible how stupid you would have to be to say that costs don't matter and won't change our ability to grow. Almost.
The company already slowed growth for the rest of this year over a MX increase of just 31 million dollars. 31 Million, that is LESS money than it would cost to give you the vacation system you want, so that a bunch of senior guys can get more summer vacation.... Changing ONLY our vacation would cost more than 31 million, and that was enough to slow our growth rate! That doesn't include higher pay rates, 321 pay, health insurance, disability, trip and duty rigs, work rules, reserve rule improvements, retirement, bonus plan..........
You can keep laying out words from your Embry Riddle Business Statistics textbook and make bold statements about JB having an unlimited ability to cover increased labor costs without slowing it's growth rate, but your statements are as accurate as Big Foots last known location.
It is almost impossible how stupid you would have to be to say that costs don't matter and won't change our ability to grow. Almost.
The company already slowed growth for the rest of this year over a MX increase of just 31 million dollars. 31 Million, that is LESS money than it would cost to give you the vacation system you want, so that a bunch of senior guys can get more summer vacation.... Changing ONLY our vacation would cost more than 31 million, and that was enough to slow our growth rate! That doesn't include higher pay rates, 321 pay, health insurance, disability, trip and duty rigs, work rules, reserve rule improvements, retirement, bonus plan..........
For some strange reason, you are attempting to take external variables, internal variables, fixed costs, and labor costs and lump them all together under the heading of "costs".
This is not how it works in our industry!!!
Here's why I asked what your point was about MX costs;
If MGMT wants to go out on a limb and purchase an Aircraft from a second rate manufacturer and risk all, should you be the shock absorber and take the hit in terms of your compensation?
Are other Airlines asking Pilots to accept industry defying cuts to their benefits and continued below average compensation all across the board as a function of MX costs?
Ever wonder why Airline Pilots like the idea of ALPA legal opening the books at their carrier to actually see what is being done with revenue and what is affordable? Or, do just prefer to go on being told your employer "can't" meet the cost of doing business?
Failed model?
JJ
08-27-2013 | 11:44 AM
#335
SDQ Base Chief
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 6,056
Likes: 34
From: 320 CA
JETBLUE AIRWAYS CORP (JBLU:NASDAQ GS): Earnings Estimates - Businessweek
We have been averaging an increase of 28mil per aircraft for the past several years. 12 aircraft will become operational in 2014, which comes to +$336mil additional revenue. So I guess we can assume the extra ~$64mil comes from operating larger aircraft, 190-seat version and first class versions. 4 of 12 aircraft will have first class at $1000/seat as opposed to ~$155/seat, so a WAG would say just over $37mil comes directly from first class revenue for those 4 a/c. Is that the number you came up with Snarge? Since to come on here talking down to us all?
Last edited by Flyby1206; 08-27-2013 at 12:13 PM.
08-27-2013 | 12:09 PM
#336
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 3,254
Likes: 49
From: 190 captain and “Pro-pilot”
08-27-2013 | 12:19 PM
#337
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 3,254
Likes: 49
From: 190 captain and “Pro-pilot”
What % of revenue difference will JB First class change? Have you any idea?
Actually, you tried unionizing.... in house and ALPA. As dues paying ALPA pilot, I am tired of spending my dues dollar waiting for you unprofessional clowns in your blue shirts to figure out what benefactor you want; management or union.
From a non tangible perspective, you guys have been taking the industry benefits to the pilot profession without contributing.... with your lav cleaning and in flight fatigue studies. ... it's gotten old hauling your dead weight around and negotiating against your pathetic pay rates and benefits.
Yet, you're welcome on our jumpseat anytime.
Actually, you tried unionizing.... in house and ALPA. As dues paying ALPA pilot, I am tired of spending my dues dollar waiting for you unprofessional clowns in your blue shirts to figure out what benefactor you want; management or union.
From a non tangible perspective, you guys have been taking the industry benefits to the pilot profession without contributing.... with your lav cleaning and in flight fatigue studies.
... it's gotten old hauling your dead weight around and negotiating against your pathetic pay rates and benefits.Yet, you're welcome on our jumpseat anytime.
I have a feeling you are just some internet tough guy.
08-27-2013 | 01:01 PM
#338
The REAL Bluedriver
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 6,935
Likes: 0
From: Airbus Capt
Let me help you because for some strange reason, you are attempting to take external variables, internal variables, fixed costs, and labor costs and lump them all together under the heading of "costs".
This is not how it works in our industry!!!
Here's why I asked what your point was about MX costs;
If MGMT wants to go out on a limb and purchase an Aircraft from a second rate manufacturer and risk all, should you be a shock absorber and take the hit in terms of your compensation?
Are other Airlines asking Pilots to accept industry defying cuts to their benefits and continued below average compensation all across the board as a function if MX costs?
Ever wonder why Airline Pilots like the idea of ALPA legal opening the books at their carrier to actually see what is being done with revenue and what is affordable? Or, do just prefer to go on blindly being told your employer "can't" meet the cost of doing business?
Failed model?
JJ
This is not how it works in our industry!!!
Here's why I asked what your point was about MX costs;
If MGMT wants to go out on a limb and purchase an Aircraft from a second rate manufacturer and risk all, should you be a shock absorber and take the hit in terms of your compensation?
Are other Airlines asking Pilots to accept industry defying cuts to their benefits and continued below average compensation all across the board as a function if MX costs?
Ever wonder why Airline Pilots like the idea of ALPA legal opening the books at their carrier to actually see what is being done with revenue and what is affordable? Or, do just prefer to go on blindly being told your employer "can't" meet the cost of doing business?
Failed model?
JJ
Should we pilots suffer because management didn't have a power by the hour MX agreement, no. But guess what, WE ALREADY ARE. Slower growth hurts my career, and they slowed growth because of the extra MX expenses. But, that was not the point, and you know it. You intentionally changed the subject away from why they slowed growth. It was not because the E90 needed more mx than planned, THEY SLOWED THE GROWTH BECAUSE THEIR COSTS (EXPENSES) WENT UP.
Airlines fund growth through free cash flow or debt. Free cash flow is revenue over and above ALL expenses. When your expenses go up, whatever the reason, you have less free cash flow to fund growth and other investments. You can try and raise revenue, but if it were that easy, ALL airlines would just simply turn the revenue dial up to max...
Ultimately, costs, no matter the source, MUST be paid, and the money to pay them is limited. Period.
08-27-2013 | 01:21 PM
#339
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,045
Likes: 0
You say you will explain (help me) how all "costs" are not actually costs, I guess implying once again that labor costs don't actually cost the company anything, or that the company has some special secret account with unlimited funds just for labor costs. But you didn't explain anything. Just another statement that you speak the truth, no proof or explanation or convincing logic, just a statement.
Should we pilots suffer because management didn't have a power by the hour MX agreement, no. But guess what, WE ALREADY ARE. Slower growth hurts my career, and they slowed growth because of the extra MX expenses. But, that was not the point, and you know it. You intentionally changed the subject away from why they slowed growth. It was not because the E90 needed more mx than planned, THEY SLOWED THE GROWTH BECAUSE THEIR COSTS (EXPENSES) WENT UP.
Airlines fund growth through free cash flow or debt. Free cash flow is revenue over and above ALL expenses. When your expenses go up, whatever the reason, you have less free cash flow to fund growth and other investments. You can try and raise revenue, but if it were that easy, ALL airlines would just simply turn the revenue dial up to max...
Ultimately, costs, no matter the source, MUST be paid, and the money to pay them is limited. Period.
Should we pilots suffer because management didn't have a power by the hour MX agreement, no. But guess what, WE ALREADY ARE. Slower growth hurts my career, and they slowed growth because of the extra MX expenses. But, that was not the point, and you know it. You intentionally changed the subject away from why they slowed growth. It was not because the E90 needed more mx than planned, THEY SLOWED THE GROWTH BECAUSE THEIR COSTS (EXPENSES) WENT UP.
Airlines fund growth through free cash flow or debt. Free cash flow is revenue over and above ALL expenses. When your expenses go up, whatever the reason, you have less free cash flow to fund growth and other investments. You can try and raise revenue, but if it were that easy, ALL airlines would just simply turn the revenue dial up to max...
Ultimately, costs, no matter the source, MUST be paid, and the money to pay them is limited. Period.
Dude. This has nothing to do with external or internal variables. It's company policy to compensate Pilots below average!
Pick any time frame or economic outlook at any time throughout JBs history. One constant has remained throughout times good and bad; BELOW AVERAGE COMPENSATION.
But, lets give you your forum. You believe an increase in PILOT compensation would put JB in trouble.
Who is telling you this???
It's not our SME. It's not MIT, and it's not IATA which represents over 230 member Airlines worldwide. None of the above are citing PILOT compensation a significant threat to the Airlines.
So, my question is, who's telling you otherwise, management?
JJ
Last edited by alvrb211; 08-27-2013 at 01:37 PM.
08-27-2013 | 01:33 PM
#340
The REAL Bluedriver
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 6,935
Likes: 0
From: Airbus Capt
Dude. This has nothing to do with external or internal variables. It's company policy to compensate Pilots below average!
Pick any time frame or economic outlook at any time throughout JBs history. One constant has remained throughout times good and bad; BELOW AVERAGE COMPENSATION.
JJ
Pick any time frame or economic outlook at any time throughout JBs history. One constant has remained throughout times good and bad; BELOW AVERAGE COMPENSATION.
JJ
WE ARE A BELOW AVERAGE AIRLINE, IN ALMOST EVERY WAY! THAT IS REALITY!
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
