Pinnacle TA consequences forSkyWest/Expessjet
01-16-2013 | 05:08 AM
#131
Line Holder
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,832
Likes: 5
From: 737 Left
After a quick look at pay rates on APC, it would appear that the Pinnacle rates are pretty much the bottom of the barrel now, not accounting for work rules. (I'm just not that industrious this morning). It would also appear that XJET (who the heck are we now?) is close to the top of those pay rates. If the company is trying to negotiate an industry standard, then our rates are either at that point now, or are higher than industry standard. It is going to be difficult for us to negotiate anything better at this point.
For the record, I am not blaming the pinnacle pilots. I have friends there, and frankly, I have no clue which way I would have voted since I am not a PNCL pilot and did not read the TA. Good luck guys and gals. We are all going to need it.
For the record, I am not blaming the pinnacle pilots. I have friends there, and frankly, I have no clue which way I would have voted since I am not a PNCL pilot and did not read the TA. Good luck guys and gals. We are all going to need it.
01-16-2013 | 05:10 AM
#132
Gets Off to Weekends
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 649
Likes: 0
From: A320 FO
Many are making a good point here, those opposed aren't keeping an open mind. If I was in the bottom 60%, and I knew that my job would be eliminated, albeit it in 4 months or 4 years, I would have voted no. I realize the ramifications of voting no, I'd be on the street sooner. But I would prevent a precedence from being set, a precedence that would follow me to my next job.
Very real ramifactions of each vote:
No: Out of a job in 12 months due to accelerated aircraft returns. Move to a lateral job with an industry standard/leading contract in 8-15 months.
Yes: Out of a lower-paying job in 30 months due to announced aircraft returns. Furlough, search for a job, but due to majors renegotiating RFP rates, hiring has stalled due to uncertainty.
(I realize this may be extreme and worst case scenario, I think many would say it is a very real possibility)
And before the flame baits start, let me say that I personally made a lateral move and took a 4 year pay cut/reset voluntarily. So I can speak with some authority here.
Very real ramifactions of each vote:
No: Out of a job in 12 months due to accelerated aircraft returns. Move to a lateral job with an industry standard/leading contract in 8-15 months.
Yes: Out of a lower-paying job in 30 months due to announced aircraft returns. Furlough, search for a job, but due to majors renegotiating RFP rates, hiring has stalled due to uncertainty.
(I realize this may be extreme and worst case scenario, I think many would say it is a very real possibility)
And before the flame baits start, let me say that I personally made a lateral move and took a 4 year pay cut/reset voluntarily. So I can speak with some authority here.
So you quit and gave up. Most here at Pinnacle have been through multiple contract votes, union drives, strike votes, seniority mergers, concession votes etc. We have stood strong and respected other carriers that went through the same. There isn't another group of people that loathe Pinnacle more than the Pinnacle pilots.
01-16-2013 | 05:15 AM
#133
Line Holder
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,832
Likes: 5
From: 737 Left
So if you were being offered $3000 as "signing bonus" and three months pay if you get furloughed this year.
(75x33.10)*3 = $7447.50 + $3000 = $10447.50
@ Year 2 Pay
As someone less than 40 from the bottom of 2300, what did I have to lose if I vote no, $10,447.50, before taxes. If I am going to lose my job anyways, and have little chance of making it back anytime soon, why would I leave 10 grand on the table. That could make a huge difference when unemployed. Yeah my vote was bought, sh*t happens in this industry, you will change your mind WHEN the time comes. Ill take my money and figure out something else, take the money and finish up my masters when I'm on unemployment.
(75x33.10)*3 = $7447.50 + $3000 = $10447.50
@ Year 2 Pay
As someone less than 40 from the bottom of 2300, what did I have to lose if I vote no, $10,447.50, before taxes. If I am going to lose my job anyways, and have little chance of making it back anytime soon, why would I leave 10 grand on the table. That could make a huge difference when unemployed. Yeah my vote was bought, sh*t happens in this industry, you will change your mind WHEN the time comes. Ill take my money and figure out something else, take the money and finish up my masters when I'm on unemployment.
01-16-2013 | 05:21 AM
#135
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 1,163
Likes: 0
From: Aeroplanes
No, not at all. I left a job after more than 5 years of employment because I knew my time there would be limited due to cutbacks. I could have stayed until furlough and made more $$$, but other airlines were hiring. It would have been foolish for me to wait it out in a job that is entirely seniority based. Had I have stayed until furlough, I would have been over 200 positions behind in seniority.
I'm not saying I don't blame the pinnacle guys for taking the signing bonus. It's good money. But the problem is that it is very short sighted. Sure, you got $10000 for 3 months, but you'll lose that over time by staying at pinnacle until the end and then moving to another place that has already hired many.
Yes, it would be easy to take the signing bonus then jump ship. But what many fail to realize is a precedent has been set in the industry now. The "Industry standard" bar has been lowered, nobody can argue that.
I'm not saying I don't blame the pinnacle guys for taking the signing bonus. It's good money. But the problem is that it is very short sighted. Sure, you got $10000 for 3 months, but you'll lose that over time by staying at pinnacle until the end and then moving to another place that has already hired many.
Yes, it would be easy to take the signing bonus then jump ship. But what many fail to realize is a precedent has been set in the industry now. The "Industry standard" bar has been lowered, nobody can argue that.
01-16-2013 | 05:35 AM
#136
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 234
Likes: 0
From: CORP
And for the record I was a Solid NO before they came out with the furlough package, I though the same thing I would I vote Yes if either way I lost my job. Delta was smart in the way they offered this to us because other wise you would have seen a 15 to 85 defeat instead of passage.
01-16-2013 | 06:16 AM
#137
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 2,450
Likes: 0
From: Airbus button pusher
01-16-2013 | 06:17 AM
#138
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 453
Likes: 0
Every last one of you guys NOT working for Pinnacle would of voted yes. Give me a break, and I freaking dare you to start denying jumpseat. That threat is as empty as a can of beans in a homeless shelter.
Hide behind your keyboards, **** and moan about what is in the pipeline for you. ASA/Skywest....you guys are next. Welcome to the suck! and I wish you all well negotiating a 1113C.
Hide behind your keyboards, **** and moan about what is in the pipeline for you. ASA/Skywest....you guys are next. Welcome to the suck! and I wish you all well negotiating a 1113C.
In the end I don't care how PNCL voted. That's their airline, not mine. I keep hearing how great of a job we are doing here at XJT and I expected to be compensated for it. If you can't make that happen, well......Flame on! Burn it down and I'll see you at the reunion parties.
01-16-2013 | 06:51 AM
#140
Banned
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 1,071
Likes: 0
While I agree with most of your post, I,don't agree with this sentiment. The TA passed by 85% out of 86% that voted. Therefore, 9E, 9L and XJ pilots are equally to blame.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
