Originally Posted by Nevets

I'm not doing a good job explaining myself. What I'm saying is that you get what you get because the average is set by others. Since you don't have an NMB recognized bargaining agent, by definition, you are not a participant.

Originally Posted by fastback

No, you aren't explaining yourself very well. Exactly in what is a Skywest pilot not a participant?

Originally Posted by fastback

Quote:





Originally Posted by Nevets


I'm not doing a good job explaining myself. What I'm saying is that you get what you get because the average is set by others. Since you don't have an NMB recognized bargaining agent, by definition, you are not a participant.




No, you aren't explaining yourself very well. Exactly in what is a Skywest pilot not a participant?

Originally Posted by Nevets

You are not exerting your right to bargain collectively and thus, with real leverage. As little as it is in the regional industry. Let me give you one example. Let's look at the last compass contract. They had the leverage to bargain for their contract with the credible threat that whatever they can't come to an agreement to, a neutral third party makes the final binding decision for the two parties, regardless of financial windfalls to one side or the other. Does your pilot leaders have the power/right to send whatever the company doesn't agree to to binding arbitration? If no, then they really are just spectators and management has just made it seem like you have some control over the interpretation of language in your work rules. You get what management decides to give you. Otherwise you would be self funded organization with no conflict of interest between the employer and the employees being funded by the employer to supposedly bargain against their financial interest when it's the employers FIDUCIARY responsibility to extract as much cost savings from the employee. Does your organization have a legal fiduciary to the pilots? No they don't. Their only responsibility is to follow the rules of the employer. They get no protections afforded federally recognized bargaining agents in executing their fiduciary responsibility to the employee because you are only at-will employees.

Without that leverage, you are just spectating whether you want to admit it or not. And I say that the fact that you deny to see it, is the reason why we are being whipsawed. You guys can help end this now.

Originally Posted by fastback

Personally, I'd rather operate with a contract and with some of the professional services that a union offers

Originally Posted by fastback

but for you to imply that we are just spectators to our own careers is just bunk.

Originally Posted by fastback

Oh, and saying that by going ALPA we will help end Inc's efforts to lower pilot labor cost is shortsighted and oblivious to history.

Originally Posted by fastback

Quote:





Originally Posted by Nevets


You are not exerting your right to bargain collectively and thus, with real leverage. As little as it is in the regional industry. Let me give you one example. Let's look at the last compass contract. They had the leverage to bargain for their contract with the credible threat that whatever they can't come to an agreement to, a neutral third party makes the final binding decision for the two parties, regardless of financial windfalls to one side or the other. Does your pilot leaders have the power/right to send whatever the company doesn't agree to to binding arbitration? If no, then they really are just spectators and management has just made it seem like you have some control over the interpretation of language in your work rules. You get what management decides to give you. Otherwise you would be self funded organization with no conflict of interest between the employer and the employees being funded by the employer to supposedly bargain against their financial interest when it's the employers FIDUCIARY responsibility to extract as much cost savings from the employee. Does your organization have a legal fiduciary to the pilots? No they don't. Their only responsibility is to follow the rules of the employer. They get no protections afforded federally recognized bargaining agents in executing their fiduciary responsibility to the employee because you are only at-will employees.

Without that leverage, you are just spectating whether you want to admit it or not. And I say that the fact that you deny to see it, is the reason why we are being whipsawed. You guys can help end this now.




You didn't answer my question, which was "Exactly in what is a Skywest pilot not a participant?"

Every Skywest pilot is a participant in the regional airline labor market, just not in a manner approved by you. Granted, we do operate without a NMB observed contract, which some may argue is for better or for worse. Personally, I'd rather operate with a contract and with some of the professional services that a union offers, but for you to imply that we are just spectators to our own careers is just bunk.

Oh, and saying that by going ALPA we will help end Inc's efforts to lower pilot labor cost is shortsighted and oblivious to history.

Originally Posted by rickair7777

Quote:





Originally Posted by fastback


Personally, I'd rather operate with a contract and with some of the professional services that a union offers




Me too but it would have to be in-house.


Quote:





Originally Posted by fastback


but for you to imply that we are just spectators to our own careers is just bunk.




Concur.


Quote:





Originally Posted by fastback


Oh, and saying that by going ALPA we will help end Inc's efforts to lower pilot labor cost is shortsighted and oblivious to history.




x10. ALPA is a near catastrophic failure at the regional level and a gross conflict of interest.

Nevets you talk about Koolaid, but there ain't no better stuff than what they feed new pilots at ALPA regionals (I've even had a few sips myself). Give it a rest, we all know how you feel 1000 times over and those of who have been around a while know that things aren't so great over at SureJet.

Originally Posted by Nevets

Things have definitely gone to $hit since Inc took over, management wise.

Originally Posted by Nevets

Where did I say anything about going ALPA? Proof that you are biased.

Anyway, it just seems as though we disagree in the definition in participating. Call it bananas if you want. But my point still stands. You don't have a real say.

Originally Posted by rcfd13

Quote:





Originally Posted by Nevets


Things have definitely gone to $hit since Inc took over, management wise.




Yeah I'm right with you. Inc clearly has the worst management at the regionals. Just look at how bad our pay, work rules and contacts are compared to other regionals... Oh wait..

Give it a rest. No one here cares. You're the one drinking the kool aid.

Originally Posted by fastback

Quote:





Originally Posted by Nevets


Where did I say anything about going ALPA? Proof that you are biased.

Anyway, it just seems as though we disagree in the definition in participating. Call it bananas if you want. But my point still stands. You don't have a real say.




Any existing or prospective established or in-house union can be substituted for ALPA. I wrote ALPA in my response to you because you refer to yourself as "ALPA Pilot". That's how you have chosen to identify, not my bias. That, and "Bananas Pilot" doesn't apply to either of us I don't think.