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Duesenflieger 02-01-2017 07:50 AM


Originally Posted by spikemath (Post 2292506)
Really? There is a large segment of our Captain group who are in that "lost generation" who are actively working to move on but are being told by recruiters that they have too much Captain time, or that they are now too old (they hit the number 40). Most of those guys don't want to be lifers but are in a way being forced to.

Then there are the genuine lifers who have great schedules and live in base, plus they make great money. It would be tough to give that up just to fly a bigger airplane.

I can't speak for all captains at other bases, but where I am based, I am finding those over 40 years old refuse to volunteer or partake in company extracurriculars or attend job fairs. I'm not making that up either because I ask each one of them whether they do those things after they tell me that no one will hire them. It's always the same, "I won't beg for a job." To be VERY FAIR, it is very hard to do all of these things and takes a lot of determination, spending of one's income and so on. Many of them haven't published their apps in their ten year tenure as a commercial pilot, or update only every three months. No wonder that they can't move on....

Is offline 02-01-2017 08:07 AM


Originally Posted by Duesenflieger (Post 2292513)
I can't speak for all captains at other bases, but where I am based, I am finding those over 40 years old refuse to volunteer or partake in company extracurriculars or attend job fairs. I'm not making that up either because I ask each one of them whether they do those things after they tell me that no one will hire them. It's always the same, "I won't beg for a job." To be VERY FAIR, it is very hard to do all of these things and takes a lot of determination, spending of one's income and so on. Many of them haven't published their apps in their ten year tenure as a commercial pilot, or update only every three months. No wonder that they can't move on....

They should not need to beg for a job. The position should be filled by the most qualified applicant, but today pilots are willing to do anything to get a job. Any other industry the companies recruit employees. In the aviation industry people will pay to get a job.

WesternSkies 02-01-2017 08:47 AM

Seriously. The hiring departments at major airlines have slam dunks compared to their peers in the rest of the world.
They have a highly specialized Job to be filled and they can't walk without tripping over qualified applicants whose ten year work, medical and security history completely encompasses flying their own passengers day in and day out without incident. All with documents to back that up.
...But everybody loves a good job fair.

Bravix 02-01-2017 09:20 AM


Originally Posted by RedBeardedPilot (Post 2292465)
Ugh just so people are aware of 1st year pay 2016 I finished at $46,000 had no bonus paid. November 2015 hire, I finished sim Jan 2016 was online off of IOE in Feb. 2nd year pay bump was in November but that extra dollar had almost no impact on final number. Through the months my hours averaged 88 hours. My number is including per deim. So is it amazing pay no! Is it more than instructing yes! I was able to pay all my bills, go on vacations, and we bought a house. If you can't live off of that you are doing several things wrong.

That's actually a bit less than I make instructing...but not by much. Been looking at SkyWest, the wages are the only thing causing me hesitation. Did the whole cadet thing even. But I really don't look forward to a pay cut.

Just curious, when you say averaging 88, is that your actual flight or credit? Looking at the numbers, I don't see how 88 credit would be getting you that money, unless per diem is really adding that much, and you're also including bonuses? (Which would lead to my next question, how substantial are the bonuses?)

rickair7777 02-01-2017 09:22 AM


Originally Posted by Duesenflieger (Post 2292513)
I can't speak for all captains at other bases, but where I am based, I am finding those over 40 years old refuse to volunteer or partake in company extracurriculars or attend job fairs. I'm not making that up either because I ask each one of them whether they do those things after they tell me that no one will hire them. It's always the same, "I won't beg for a job." To be VERY FAIR, it is very hard to do all of these things and takes a lot of determination, spending of one's income and so on. Many of them haven't published their apps in their ten year tenure as a commercial pilot, or update only every three months. No wonder that they can't move on....

It's because they have lives and families, and know where their priorities lay.

The job fair paradigm may be just a creative filter to allow age discrimination.

Duesenflieger 02-01-2017 09:28 AM


Originally Posted by rickair7777 (Post 2292569)
It's because they have lives and families, and know where their priorities lay.

The job fair paradigm may be just a creative filter to allow age discrimination.

Why would they be age discriminating, though? A forty-year old pilot will accrue much less from long-term payscale and benefits than a twenty-five year old.... It would make sense to prefer to hire the older person rather than the younger one from a labor cost viewpoint.

N1234 02-01-2017 09:30 AM


Originally Posted by Duesenflieger (Post 2292513)
I can't speak for all captains at other bases, but where I am based, I am finding those over 40 years old refuse to volunteer or partake in company extracurriculars or attend job fairs. I'm not making that up either because I ask each one of them whether they do those things after they tell me that no one will hire them. It's always the same, "I won't beg for a job." To be VERY FAIR, it is very hard to do all of these things and takes a lot of determination, spending of one's income and so on. Many of them haven't published their apps in their ten year tenure as a commercial pilot, or update only every three months. No wonder that they can't move on....

Hey - more power to you... if you can break the mold. But the further you get in life there more competing priorities come to play - specifically once you have a family.

ClickClickBoom 02-01-2017 09:30 AM


Originally Posted by Bravix (Post 2292567)
That's actually a bit less than I make instructing...but not by much. Been looking at SkyWest, the wages are the only thing causing me hesitation.

Pay can be infinitely variable, get hired during a shortage, you will fly until dizzy. Get hired when a slow period occurs, you will have a flat butt from sitting on it, and a flatter wallet from base guarantee. The most realistic method is to take base hourly wage x times guarantee=minumum possible pay. Every airline has these periods and to think that you will have the same experience as someone else is iffy. Every regional is just a contract burp away from a boom or bust block hour wise. My first 15 years in the biz a 24 hour 4 day was the mythical schedule unicorn, today, if you are senior enough they are the norm.
YMMV

Squallrider 02-01-2017 09:43 AM


Originally Posted by Bravix (Post 2292567)
That's actually a bit less than I make instructing...but not by much. Been looking at SkyWest, the wages are the only thing causing me hesitation. Did the whole cadet thing even. But I really don't look forward to a pay cut.

Just curious, when you say averaging 88, is that your actual flight or credit? Looking at the numbers, I don't see how 88 credit would be getting you that money, unless per diem is really adding that much, and you're also including bonuses? (Which would lead to my next question, how substantial are the bonuses?)

Probably credit 88. Per diem does add a lot, $1.85 a hour for all time away from base is around $150 tax free, so about 600 a month.

As to LIFERs, I never understood it really but you will once you have kids, start making 100k plus and have a good schedule. Some people are lost generation, some don't have time to go to job fairs, on my days off it's about the kids out of necessity. I'm not a lifer by any means but I don't have free time for job fairs nor do I want a pay cut going to mainline first year.

Every airline is made up of pilots with different wants and needs, one group can't understand the other if you haven't been in that group. SkyWest is probably the best place to be a lifer at a regional if that's your choice.

elmetal 02-01-2017 11:50 AM


Originally Posted by Squallrider (Post 2292585)
nor do I want a pay cut going to mainline first year.

This thinking is toxic. You'd rather not take a ONE year paycut for literally the remainder of your career having pay much MUCH higher than now?


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