DTW Base ?
11-14-2017, 05:09 PM
#41
Line Holder
Joined APC: Oct 2017
Posts: 83
Originally Posted by NKSMCOTAKEOVER
Anyone who doesn’t get a conflict at least every two months is not trying or doesn’t know the contract. I’m 75% in base and I managed to get some sort of a conflict at the very least, every two months.
The company proposal is cost neutral. If we vote that pos in we will be the laughing stock of the industry.
The company proposal is cost neutral. If we vote that pos in we will be the laughing stock of the industry.
Union data shows 20% a month get a conflict, 10% get is based on seniority and 10% get it for various reasons like training, vacation, 29/7 issues. Straight from a NC conference call about a year ago.
So who shall I trust, their data or yours that you should get it once every 2 months? Sorry but I don’t do well with arbitrary statements that if you try, you get a conflict without any issue.
Many people bid lines for commuting purposes, weekends off with family, layovers in specific cities for various reasons, and other reasons. Many people don’t live a life based or needing to live life with conflict blinders and that’s all they see and all they bid for. Many people don’t live a life of Flica sort of “first 6 days on or last 6 days off” every month. And for the majority that don’t seek conflict every month, understand that they don’t feel so attached to it as you do.
Imagine a world where you don’t need to have a 20 hour conflict and then pick up on top of it. Imagine a world where you can just work your line and afford to live. It’s not like people solely use conflict for drops and then enjoy the time off. Many use it to drop and repick up for more money because our rates suck.
11-14-2017, 05:13 PM
#42
Line Holder
Joined APC: Oct 2017
Posts: 83
Originally Posted by lowandslow
Yeah because extra days off for the same credit is such bs. 
11-14-2017, 07:30 PM
#44
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2010
Posts: 4,603
Originally Posted by BusterBust
How do you think your block pay and credit will be equal under PBS? The new contract will have a 5 hour min duty vs a 4.5, for starters. So how does soft pay go away? And the 22 hour overnight override remains the same.
You don’t think you’ll ever have any soft pay under PBS? I’ve flown under PBS, there is soft pay.
You get conflict, nice. 20% do each month according to the union. Means 80% does not. And yes, guys who get conflict every month that pick up on top will not see a huge monetary gain with any new contract because conflict is gone, regardless of bidding, and the “free” conflict pay will hit those pilots. This is true.
I’ve done the math on the company’s propsal vs my current pay and it isn’t even close to cost neutral. Maybe because I don’t go in and double dip on conflict drops because I’m part of the 80% that doesn’t get them. I will make more with their proposal. It’s now a matter of waiting to see what the union can get done with PBS discussions and control. Devil is in the details and judging PBS as evil or amazing is like judging a meal before you get to taste it.
Make sure you share your math with the NC this week on the conference call. Will be curious to see what they have to say about it.
You don’t think you’ll ever have any soft pay under PBS? I’ve flown under PBS, there is soft pay.
You get conflict, nice. 20% do each month according to the union. Means 80% does not. And yes, guys who get conflict every month that pick up on top will not see a huge monetary gain with any new contract because conflict is gone, regardless of bidding, and the “free” conflict pay will hit those pilots. This is true.
I’ve done the math on the company’s propsal vs my current pay and it isn’t even close to cost neutral. Maybe because I don’t go in and double dip on conflict drops because I’m part of the 80% that doesn’t get them. I will make more with their proposal. It’s now a matter of waiting to see what the union can get done with PBS discussions and control. Devil is in the details and judging PBS as evil or amazing is like judging a meal before you get to taste it.
Make sure you share your math with the NC this week on the conference call. Will be curious to see what they have to say about it.
It also had our current weak scope to include unlimited codesharing (can you say Spirit 100 operated by NAI), and terrible LTD (hello Walmart greater when you lose your first class)
11-14-2017, 07:35 PM
#45
Line Holder
Joined APC: Oct 2017
Posts: 83
Originally Posted by Qotsaautopilot
You’re right on many points but it was still insulting. It’s basically what Jetblue makes today with weaker rigs than jetblue. And they are negotiating substantial raises at the same time as us.
It also had our current weak scope to include unlimited codesharing (can you say Spirit 100 operated by NAI), and terrible LTD (hello Walmart greater when you lose your first class)
It also had our current weak scope to include unlimited codesharing (can you say Spirit 100 operated by NAI), and terrible LTD (hello Walmart greater when you lose your first class)
11-14-2017, 08:23 PM
#46
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2005
Position: Office Chair
Posts: 629
To say that only 20% benefit from the current transition language is completely misguided. If I have a transition trip drop, and don't pick up on top of the drop, where does the flying go? I'm already paid for the trip, and I get to stay home for 9-10 days. That trip is covered by someone else that wants to make extra money at 100-200% or improve their schedule, or it keeps a RSV pilot employed or in their seat. Whether you can consistently hold a transition conflict or not, the language greatly benefits everyone on property.
11-14-2017, 08:34 PM
#47
Line Holder
Joined APC: Oct 2017
Posts: 83
Originally Posted by FLYBOYMATTHEW
To say that only 20% benefit from the current transition language is completely misguided. If I have a transition trip drop, and don't pick up on top of the drop, where does the flying go? I'm already paid for the trip, and I get to stay home for 9-10 days. That trip is covered by someone else that wants to make extra money at 100-200% or improve their schedule, or it keeps a RSV pilot employed or in their seat. Whether you can consistently hold a transition conflict or not, the language greatly benefits everyone on property.
Lets not conflate two things by saying it benefits everyone because of the trickle down. That wasn't the topic, the topic was people who bid and receive a conflict transition and receive the benefits of free pay/extra days off.
The "butterfly flaps its wings" theory on conflict, helping all, could also be used to say "All that open time results in more open time vs reserve coverage, causing more red days, and not allowing our pilots to ever be able to drop days at the front of the month."
The guys that slay the conflict system each month with those perfect 6 day drops have a great thing going. But not everyone wants to spend every month trying to find that last 2 day trip to stack up a conflict for this month, and then try and bid a conflict line the next month. A lot of us just want to bid a line, fly our line, and get paid a fair wage, and not spend our lives living off the conflict game.
11-14-2017, 09:11 PM
#48
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2017
Position: NK CA
Posts: 826
Originally Posted by BusterBust
A lot of us just want to bid a line, fly our line, and get paid a fair wage, and not spend our lives living off the conflict game.
What those who are so obsessed with the transition game don't seem to realize either is that with industry standard pay they could drop a 4 day trip and still make more money than what they are currently making.
11-14-2017, 09:18 PM
#49
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2015
Posts: 195
Originally Posted by Lincoln Osiris
This X 1000% YES. I hope that is the majority of us and what was gathered from all the polling done over the last few years.
What those who are so obsessed with the transition game don't seem to realize either is that with industry standard pay they could drop a 4 day trip and still make more money than what they are currently making.
What those who are so obsessed with the transition game don't seem to realize either is that with industry standard pay they could drop a 4 day trip and still make more money than what they are currently making.
Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
11-14-2017, 09:23 PM
#50
captain scarlet
Joined APC: May 2015
Position: Who needs to know?
Posts: 170
Originally Posted by BusterBust
A lot of us just want to bid a line, fly our line, and get paid a fair wage, and not spend our lives living off the conflict game.
Most folks that are in this frame of mind bid relief.
It is a choice to do so , but please do not try to convince us that only a few benefit from transitions, it is simply not true.
I do not even try that hard and at 70% seniority on the left seat I get some sort of transition drop at least every other month.
Transitions are a great benefit to open time, reserves and junior pilots, and not just the folks "lucky enough" to get them.
PBS is going to dramatically decrease staffing, (10-15%) which will affect everyone.
This may mean the difference between being stuck on reserve or relief indefinitely, or no upgrade if your are in the 55-65% seniority range when growth stops.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
