Every single day is worth 5+ so a three day can’t be 8hr day, 30hr off, 7 hr day. At Delta that trip would only pay 15:45. At SW that trip would pay 8+7+5=20. Granted they prob wouldn’t build that trip with min cal day without averaging. So jury’s out cause without averaging it could really change trip construction.

 

The retro or signing bonus whatever it is called is 75 million. By the time this is signed that is roughly 1900 pilots. My math shows if equally divided $39,474 per pilot. Obviously it is not divided equally because a brand new hire should not get that much. What is the proposal for division?

 

You are absolutely right. What do you think we can get by going back and how long? I think a year for sure. Many will want to replace the NC so we have to appoint and train new members. We will then resurveyed the group on why the no vote and what to focus on going back. Then we have to convince the NMB to bring us back for new dates because the company won’t care, then we will sit on ice most likely for a while before we get those dates, then us and the company talk past each other til we get a splash more money, then another voting period.

Cathy McCann used to negotiate labor agreements and concessionary ones at that at AA. She’s never going to release us and is already astonished at the company’s low offer here. We have to get $30/hr more to make it worth waiting a year and hope we don’t medical out or get raped on scope. Let’s not forget that we would then also push out the next amendable date another year because unlike Delta Spirit is absolutely dug in on 5 year terms.

I also personally think this AIP plugs their recruiting hole with chewing gum. I’m not voting with anything other than what’s presented but I think they are setting themselves up for a mid cycle increase if they want to grow again and keep recruiting. If that’s true we’d be wise to take the massive increases (not just pay) that we are getting in this offer instead of pushing it out. That probably won’t happen but it’s certainly plausible. AA got some profit sharing and calendar day mid cycle

 

Yeah, that was my math too.. not sure where the other guy came up with an 8k bonus..????

 

Those RJs serve mostly smaller cities. Yes, I know, they also fly to bigger ones, but if we parked them all tomorrow we don’t have enough planes or pilots to fly to the cities.

There is a trade off to RJ Express flying. The trade-off is we have 150+ widebody aircraft, partially because that RJ flying feeds smaller cities into the hubs to support it. Its not ALL bad not flying 76 seat and smaller jets in-house.

But we are negotiating a new contract, and your contract is already well below ours and will be even farther behind us and every other major soon.

So vote wisely!

 

Average calendar day is VERY different than minimum calendar day. UA, DL, AA (soon) have average.

 

Pre-merge CAL we used to have these 4 day 20 hour trips that left at 0600 and get home at 2359 that were doubly un-commutable and not extremely productive. My worst month I was home 4 full days (commuter issue I know). But still if you live a few hours away from the airport its still a 0300 wake-up and not home until 0300.

What fixed that was duty rigs, so they could schedule that, but it would cost them about 4 hours more pay. So all of a sudden PBS schedules our trips more efficiently. But PBS can be your worst enemy without strong trip rigs. Just beware.

 

jetBlue and SWA, goes to smaller cities too (depending what your definition of small cities are), and they don't need another airline to do those feed. You missed the point, those flying should be done by mainline pilots, not "Operated by _____ airline" This is why scope is important to me, I don't want a Spirit Airline to be operated by someone else. It doesn't matter if it's "express" flying or codeshare. Last summer, Miami Air operated our flight before the TRO happened. I don't want to see things like that again.

 

Average calendar day:

Day 1 3:00
Day 2 7:00

That’s a two day trip with a 5 hr average for 10hrs


Hard calendar min day.

Day 1 3:00 pays 5hrs
Day 2 7:00 pays 7hrs

That’s a two day trip with a hard 5hr min day for 12hrs

 

Disagree, you're banking on an "if'?

They were able to grow at substandard rates.

NK management has proven how long they can drag something out. They HEVEN'T proven the intellect or smart business acumen to hand things out much less negotiate them.

And the sad truth is, they'll still get applicants even at the crappy rates, without a hypothetical mid term raiseif.

Good luck to you, don't think the Frontier and JB guys are too impressed.