You do get the 4.5 hours over 22, at least that's what my flica pairing shows for my training center schedule. Total time for my 2 training months, sim and recurrent is 45 hours (18+27).

 

I have a huge problem with this line of thinking. I know you're probably not the only one viewing it this way, but it assumes a lot.

 

Good to know. Were all of those 45 hours above your line value or was the total training credit just worth 45? In order for it to all be paid above line value all of your training would need to have been scheduled on days off. If, for example, a training event worth 20 hours was placed over a trip worth 18 hours, you would only net 2 hours credit, effectively reducing the total credit value of the training event from 20 hours above line value, to only 2 hours above line value. Have you figured out what your credit would be under the distance learning LOA? It would be interesting to know.

The way that I look at this distance learning LOA is that it will effectively be replacing 1 of our 2 training events. So really, all you are potentially missing out on with the new LOA would be DHD pay to/from one of those events. The main difference here is that the LOA ensures that 10 hrs will be paid above line value where as the current system does not. Sometimes this may result in a slight loss of credit potential and sometimes it may result in a higher credit potential but over time it really should just be a wash.

 

Okay. Without the LOA, what do you think will happen?

If you think Spirit is going to go back to the days of deadhead pay, putting you up in a hotel room and then cut you loose from a trip, with pay, I think you might be wrong.

If you think we could possibly get 6 hours of pay for the two days, or something akin to that, then I'm ready and eager to listen.

 

I'd argue that many items in the contract don't effect the whole pilot group. Doesn't mean they should just be thrown to the wayside. Does someone living in base care about commuter clauses or four days off? If anything 4 days off is a hindrance to weekends off but I'm not about to give it up just because it doesn't effect me.

 

Not understanding "go back." Nothing changes until the LOA passes or the company makes the rumored moves after it fails. I'm really not trying to be argumentative here but it's not a case of either we say yes or stuff changes tomorrow.

 

No, no I'm not trying to be argumentative either. I'm trying to make an informed decision on which way to vote for this LOA.

But, I do know that recurrent training IS going the way of the iPad, recurrent training IS going to be done at domicile and the door training which will still be done in person.

PT and PCs will be done at LAS, FLL and soon DFW.

I think those are facts and are coming. So, now the decision comes down to voting yes to the LOA, receiving 5 hours per day for two days of training, above guarantee per year, or voting no and trying to negotiate something else.

I don't believe there's a scare tactic going on, but if I vote no, it will be in the belief that they will pay us more to do the training. I'm not looking to get more without doing more, I'm not looking to "get over via technicalities" either.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but a vote of yes means an acceptance of a fair wage for doing the training when I want to do it, and a vote of no means I don't think I'm being properly compensated for the training I'm being asked to do.

 

Fundamentally, a paycut is coming to the majority of us. You can vote 'Yes' on the LOA and vote in your own paycut or vote 'No' and let the company impose their will. The difference in pay between the LOA and what management has threatened is so minuscule that I'd rather take my chances with a 'No' vote and know that at least I didn't agree to a paycut at the USA's most profitable carrier.

 

Exactamundo!

From what I can comprehend (questionable) our contract specifically states gs must be in classroom or FAA appv'd site. Don't see how they can unilaterally homeschool that.

 

I really don't see how this will result in a pay cut for the majority of our pilots. In some cases, it will result in a slight loss in DHD pay, in other cases, it will result in a slight bump in credit due to the fact that the 10 hrs is payed above line value (see my previous posts). The fact is that the DHD pay will begin to decrease regardless of how we vote with the new training centers in LAS and now apparently DFW so that does need to be taken into account here.

DHD pay to and from training can be a nice perk (if your training is scheduled on days off), but there is nothing in the contract that guarantees an abundance of DHD training pay. As the company gets more and more efficient, they will get better and better at avoiding DHD training pay. One way to look at the LOA is that it actually guarantees more credit hours than our current training section does. There is no guarantee that they have to schedule your training event on days off and with our inability to bid on training schedules, we have very little control over where our training is placed.