Nothing pilots can do at this point will make a difference in the company's actions. Billboards? Passengers don't care (they think you're overpaid already). The only thing that matters right now is making a favorable impression on the mediator, and the only reason THAT is important is for her to agree to get out of the way. Nothing about your statement above would be received well by the mediator and would be counter productive.

The labor market is going to take care of us. It's just going to take longer than if we were more unified.


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I know your intentions are good, and I agree with your sentiment.

However, that statement would never make it past ALPA legal, guaranteed. The Union can not condone or promote anything that can be considered a job action, the above is a job action. Telling guys to only fly their lines is a job action when past history shows the company has a reasonable expectation that pilots will pick up open time .

Rouge Dragon pamphlets saying to not pick up open time is one thing, the union sending a blast mail out saying this, never going to happen.

Like Ram said, everything we do now has to be viewed with "how will the mediator view this," otherwise you're simply cutting off your nose to spite your face.

And in the end, some guys are going to pick up time and go above and beyond, regardless of any billboard or union email. This is an easy scenario to armchair QB with the "well I would do this or say this." Truth is so much is at play that we need to recognize we entered an important step in mediation, and we need to sit and see how this plays out in the short term.

gonyon - You nailed it. The June opportunity came and went. New hires - most included - are hungry for 'recovery' salary: money needed to make the transition to Spirit. Captains should have set the example.

June FAIL...

I have resolved hope! Logbook and resume updated. Those that can make the jump - let's roll.


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Big assumptions. Any legal behavior will not effect an impartial judge. Just like the company is bound to the law and contract yet still robustly pushes for better outcomes, so should we.

I don't see the company dancing around in fear of a mediator. Why is the union?

I can't wrap my head around an argument that says "it probably won't work so we should do nothing". That's not a very pilot like attitude. People do care. Passengers perceive us as cheap. Cheap fares cheap planes cheap employees. And in aviation cheap equals unsafe. If the public gets a whiff we are disgruntled they will directly impact the bottom line. Which is all management cares about.

Juice- How about we try? If we asked ALPA legal and they call my suggestion a "job action" I'll shut up. But let's not argue against ourselves. If they said it wasn't illegal would you join me in calling for the union to be more assertive?

As far as I know we haven't even tried to be more forceful. We are still very much in the let's play nice mode.

agreed!!! Lets up the pressure

ALPA national has more than a few well compensated attorneys that have looked at this six ways from Sunday. They have a plan. If there was a way to leverage the company, it would have been implemented already. The process is slow. The only thing that you can do is show up to work as usual and trust ALPA.

It's also a big assumption that your sample statement would be considered legal. We are dealing with a company that wants to drag this out as long as possible, and a mediator that is only there to make sure both sides are playing by the rules - however slanted in the company's favor those rules are. Right now, our NC can show several times that we have gone above and beyond to work with the company, and can show blatant continuing violations of the CBA and non-compliance with arbitrators' rulings. Why give the company anything, like a big gray-area statement, to allow the company to deflect from our points?


Well, last time the company completely disrespected the mediator and that helped get us released.

It probably won't work, and it may hurt. Sometimes doing nothing is the best course of action. Not a pilot like attitude? We're not flying a plane. Do you use a pilot-like attitude when you negotiate on a new car or a house?


Joe six-pack averages 55K per year. The company says "These guys make $185 per hour (I know, top of the scale isn't a fair representation of wages but that's what they will say) and that's not enough for them, they are jacking up your ticket price." Beside, these guys sleep half the time anyway. I know I always feel bad for MLB players when they go on strike.

Exactly.

If a labor attorney walked up into your flight deck and said "Hey, I am not a pilot, can I fly the Airbus," we would say "get out of here and enjoy your non reclining seat.

So its humorous to read pilots wanting to say what the best course of action is in mediation. Made even more humorous with the fact that none of us or on the inside of whats going on.

We pay dues and joined a national union to let them direct the heavy lifting and rely on their expertise. Let them direct this ship just as passengers allow us to direct ours.

Thankfully the MEC can give F-all about what the vocal minority feels. Billboards...haha....try asking a passenger if they feel bad that our CAs only make $150k and a United CA makes $250k...im sure they will shed a tear for all of us. Many of our passengers second option to travel over Spirit is a bus or their own vehicle, its all they can afford.

When planes stop moving management will start.

I'm not talking about illegal job actions.


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