Originally Posted by eaglefly

Your MEC chairman had 3 offers on the table and he chose the AA deal, especially considering the seniority issue ?

That's not the fault of the APA. I stand behind my operating cash statements as TWA may or may not have had promises, but they didn't have the cash.

I'm going to join AA73 and let you argue your assertions undisputed as it's pointless now.

Originally Posted by cactusmike

I love how some people still believe the Nicolau Award screwed the East. They got the top 517 slots when they had 197 wide body captains. I lost seniority on the Nic list and it was a lot more than 1 or even 5 percent, try 18. But you know what, it does not matter. It does not matter if you think it's fair or I think it's fair. What matters is that that award was the product of the process. It was negotiated, mediated and arbitrated. It is the result of the agreed to process and that is what should have been used for the past 5 years and that is why it will be the list used in the SLI. Parker does not want a legal battle to hold up the deal. APA does not, either, evidently because the negotiator notes clearly refer to some kind of ratioed list in accordance with legislation

We are waiting for a federal judge to rule on whether US Airways management would be liable for damages should they not use the Nicolau award. In addition, the West has an immediate DFR win against USAPA should they put forward any list other than the Nic. We lost on the timing in the last suit, we did not lose on the facts of the case. On the contrary, we won easily. And if you think a federal judge is going to come out and rule that binding arbitration is not really binding, throwing out 150 years of legal precedent, then you still believe in the Tooth Fairy and Santa. Or you are USAPA.

Originally Posted by cactusmike

I love how some people still believe the Nicolau Award screwed the East. They got the top 517 slots when they had 197 wide body captains. I lost seniority on the Nic list and it was a lot more than 1 or even 5 percent, try 18. But you know what, it does not matter. It does not matter if you think it's fair or I think it's fair. What matters is that that award was the product of the process. It was negotiated, mediated and arbitrated. It is the result of the agreed to process and that is what should have been used for the past 5 years and that is why it will be the list used in the SLI. Parker does not want a legal battle to hold up the deal. APA does not, either, evidently because the negotiator notes clearly refer to some kind of ratioed list in accordance with legislation

We are waiting for a federal judge to rule on whether US Airways management would be liable for damages should they not use the Nicolau award. In addition, the West has an immediate DFR win against USAPA should they put forward any list other than the Nic. We lost on the timing in the last suit, we did not lose on the facts of the case. On the contrary, we won easily. And if you think a federal judge is going to come out and rule that binding arbitration is not really binding, throwing out 150 years of legal precedent, then you still believe in the Tooth Fairy and Santa. Or you are USAPA.

Originally Posted by eaglefly

Your MEC chairman had 3 offers on the table and he chose the AA deal, especially considering the seniority issue ?

That's not the fault of the APA. I stand behind my operating cash statements as TWA may or may not have had promises, but they didn't have the cash.

I'm going to join AA73 and let you argue your assertions undisputed as it's pointless now.

Originally Posted by cactusmike

I believe the SLI will go the way of Delta/NWA and UCAL and our Nicolau Award. It will be ratioed by Group. AA will get most of the Group 1 and 2 slots. Group 3 and 4 will probably go on a ratio of active pilots from both airlines. Furloughees will be placed below any active pilot. December 2012 and beyond should get them back on property quite soon.

Originally Posted by cactusmike

I believe the SLI will go the way of Delta/NWA and UCAL and our Nicolau Award. It will be ratioed by Group. AA will get most of the Group 1 and 2 slots. Group 3 and 4 will probably go on a ratio of active pilots from both airlines. Furloughees will be placed below any active pilot. December 2012 and beyond should get them back on property quite soon.

Think about this. With you guys going to the America West vacation policy that will require a bunch of more active pilots immediately. Bumping up your line average and using PBS will not lose as many pilot lines as you may think. There will be a net gain of pilots on that one item alone. Now, if your negotiators are smart, they will get the West's 5 +15 credit minimum per day. We get that per duty day and for any layover 24 hours or more. That is why our PHX/HNL trips pay 15+45 for a two and a half day trip and your LAX guys only get 12 hours or so. No 4 day trip pays less than 21 hours, 3 days at 15 +45, two days at 10+30. It's pretty sweet. On the 757 I would fly a 90 hour credit line and only fly 55 hours hard time.

Originally Posted by 756driver

It s not pointless Alpa is being sued by TWA and up until recently AA is trying to screw the TWA guys out of STL by urging the company to close STL so AA can take their left seats. AA and APA should close STL throw out sup cc and sit down and hammer out a new integration. If not AA should stand trial for the atrocities that were committed before Usair. Karma I love it!

Originally Posted by buddies8

Lets not forget that ALPA had started a process for regaining representation of the AA pilots during this period. ALPA national was looking at dues, 2500 pilots from TWA or 10,000 pilots from AA. ALPA,s belief was screw TWA and gain support and traction on AA property for a vote for ALPA. ALPA did the same thing to Eagle, sold them for 16 years while trying to gain favor with AA pilots for representation. Dont anyone ever mention union representation from ALPA, they look out for ALPA first and last, pilots are collateral damage.
Just a point of view with the facts.

Originally Posted by eaglefly

Yep, that's why they won their suit against ALPA. Agreed on the worthlessness of ALPA. It's a virtual certainty they'll soon declare bankruptcy. Then, they'll really have no choice but to clean out their members. It's going to be a financial bloodbath for every ALPA pilot. When that happens, seeing as how pilots like to blame each other, I'll be curious to see if the anger and rage is directed at ALPA or the TWA pilots.

If you're an ALPA pilot, you'll be coughing up thousands over this.