JCBA timeline extension
11-14-2014 | 04:44 AM
#162
Line Holder
Joined: Dec 2012
Posts: 89
Likes: 0
Route66- a couple of quick items that are the source of my disdain for the totally inadequate proposal are as follows:
Pay- Isn't enough given what our competitors make in total compensation
Duty Rig- Too much "working for free" in there.
Hotels- Weaker language and lower standards than what I had at my scumbag third rate, regional.
Reserve Section- Way off the mark for a major air carrier with provisions in it that were worse than my scumbag, third rate, regional.
Scope- an unacceptable amount of available seats for my former scumbag, third rate, regional to fly.
These are a few of my "not so favorite things", since you asked. Without some hefty fixes, I'm fine with arbitration or sticking things out until 2016.
Also, I am not shy about doing my job. That's all it takes for an outfit to fall apart. If following the book gets me time "off" for a while, I'm fine with that. I'll see you in a year or two with my back pay and some good fishing stories.
I have some real questions about the truth of your claim of being an airline pilot. So, what I really want to know is, are you Jerry, or one of Jerry's kids???
Pay- Isn't enough given what our competitors make in total compensation
Duty Rig- Too much "working for free" in there.
Hotels- Weaker language and lower standards than what I had at my scumbag third rate, regional.
Reserve Section- Way off the mark for a major air carrier with provisions in it that were worse than my scumbag, third rate, regional.
Scope- an unacceptable amount of available seats for my former scumbag, third rate, regional to fly.
These are a few of my "not so favorite things", since you asked. Without some hefty fixes, I'm fine with arbitration or sticking things out until 2016.
Also, I am not shy about doing my job. That's all it takes for an outfit to fall apart. If following the book gets me time "off" for a while, I'm fine with that. I'll see you in a year or two with my back pay and some good fishing stories.
I have some real questions about the truth of your claim of being an airline pilot. So, what I really want to know is, are you Jerry, or one of Jerry's kids???
11-14-2014 | 05:01 AM
#163
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 2,450
Likes: 0
From: Airbus button pusher
"We believe". Who is "we"? (I think THAT is your first problem) Second, if you even READ the offer, which I have, and done the MATH it's a GREAT offer. Now, I grant it could possibly be tweaked in some form, but other than that it beats digging ditches. I'm NOT in your group of "unhappy" pilots.
BTW, I'm TALKING about illegal job actions because I can "read between the lines" on these (and MANY other) forums and I know the trigger words. "Minimum work", "by the book", "What they did in Flying the Line", etc., etc.
You can't fool me, and you can't fool management.
But I will concede that the "war talk" is over and see if we can get back to the contract discusion. So you say your flummoxed. For pilots, I would say vexed but I like your style. So let's have at it.
WHAT DO AND DON'T YOU LIKE ABOUT THE OFFER. Let's keep it real and maybe we can all come to some meeting of the minds. OK?
BTW, I'm TALKING about illegal job actions because I can "read between the lines" on these (and MANY other) forums and I know the trigger words. "Minimum work", "by the book", "What they did in Flying the Line", etc., etc.
You can't fool me, and you can't fool management.
But I will concede that the "war talk" is over and see if we can get back to the contract discusion. So you say your flummoxed. For pilots, I would say vexed but I like your style. So let's have at it.
WHAT DO AND DON'T YOU LIKE ABOUT THE OFFER. Let's keep it real and maybe we can all come to some meeting of the minds. OK?
11-14-2014 | 05:40 AM
#165
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 5,299
Likes: 0
From: A320 Capt
I do not think anyone is anywhere near doing anything or advocating anything that would get someone fired. I know he has hired Glass and we should hire someone to counter glass- there's a lot of us, we can afford it. Again, why would arbitration bring about this reaction any more than a substandard contract. This is not a time for emotions. This is a time for resolve and I really think that is all there is here and that this is a good thing. How do you expect folks to react to this insult from management?
I think guys are going to be mad no matter what. Happiness=reality divided by expectations. AA pilots had high expectations of Parker(unrealistic IMHO) and I don't see him coming near their expectations, based on my 9 years with him. I think he is Lorenzo with a smile and a crew news session, just maybe a better manager.
What I'm saying, and RTE66 in his Mack truck way, is that we agreed to this. What was expected and with Paker's history with LUS pilots, why was anything above what he has to do expected? Why did we,again, agree to "Hope and Change" instead of getting a back stop like the company always does? Parker negotiated with another company's unions for his employees contract for God shakes! Wasn't that a red flag for anyone at AA?
RTE66 said it was a great offer. It's not, it sucks with respect to what we deserve and where the company is. What I think he is saying is that it is "great" compared to what Parker HAS to do.
Maybe the AA pilot group is different. Maybe THEY can force what US pilots couldn't. It's a different time and different circumstances. It just seems to me that we made the same mistake again-signing on to an agreement and ignoring what it SAID, wishing and hoping for management to do the right thing.
I hope I can sign on here in the near future congratulating you guys on being right and me being wrong. I really do.
11-14-2014 | 09:48 AM
#167
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 581
Likes: 0
Have you been on C&R? The board tells you not to advocate any job actions, but....Two guys got fired here for not finishing DL. You have more faith than I do.
I think guys are going to be mad no matter what. Happiness=reality divided by expectations. AA pilots had high expectations of Parker(unrealistic IMHO) and I don't see him coming near their expectations, based on my 9 years with him. I think he is Lorenzo with a smile and a crew news session, just maybe a better manager.
What I'm saying, and RTE66 in his Mack truck way, is that we agreed to this. What was expected and with Paker's history with LUS pilots, why was anything above what he has to do expected? Why did we,again, agree to "Hope and Change" instead of getting a back stop like the company always does? Parker negotiated with another company's unions for his employees contract for God shakes! Wasn't that a red flag for anyone at AA?
RTE66 said it was a great offer. It's not, it sucks with respect to what we deserve and where the company is. What I think he is saying is that it is "great" compared to what Parker HAS to do.
Maybe the AA pilot group is different. Maybe THEY can force what US pilots couldn't. It's a different time and different circumstances. It just seems to me that we made the same mistake again-signing on to an agreement and ignoring what it SAID, wishing and hoping for management to do the right thing.
I hope I can sign on here in the near future congratulating you guys on being right and me being wrong. I really do.
I think guys are going to be mad no matter what. Happiness=reality divided by expectations. AA pilots had high expectations of Parker(unrealistic IMHO) and I don't see him coming near their expectations, based on my 9 years with him. I think he is Lorenzo with a smile and a crew news session, just maybe a better manager.
What I'm saying, and RTE66 in his Mack truck way, is that we agreed to this. What was expected and with Paker's history with LUS pilots, why was anything above what he has to do expected? Why did we,again, agree to "Hope and Change" instead of getting a back stop like the company always does? Parker negotiated with another company's unions for his employees contract for God shakes! Wasn't that a red flag for anyone at AA?
RTE66 said it was a great offer. It's not, it sucks with respect to what we deserve and where the company is. What I think he is saying is that it is "great" compared to what Parker HAS to do.
Maybe the AA pilot group is different. Maybe THEY can force what US pilots couldn't. It's a different time and different circumstances. It just seems to me that we made the same mistake again-signing on to an agreement and ignoring what it SAID, wishing and hoping for management to do the right thing.
I hope I can sign on here in the near future congratulating you guys on being right and me being wrong. I really do.
11-14-2014 | 10:01 AM
#168
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 581
Likes: 0
"We believe". Who is "we"? (I think THAT is your first problem) Second, if you even READ the offer, which I have, and done the MATH it's a GREAT offer. Now, I grant it could possibly be tweaked in some form, but other than that it beats digging ditches. I'm NOT in your group of "unhappy" pilots.
BTW, I'm TALKING about illegal job actions because I can "read between the lines" on these (and MANY other) forums and I know the trigger words. "Minimum work", "by the book", "What they did in Flying the Line", etc., etc.
You can't fool me, and you can't fool management.
But I will concede that the "war talk" is over and see if we can get back to the contract discusion. So you say your flummoxed. For pilots, I would say vexed but I like your style. So let's have at it.
WHAT DO AND DON'T YOU LIKE ABOUT THE OFFER. Let's keep it real and maybe we can all come to some meeting of the minds. OK?
BTW, I'm TALKING about illegal job actions because I can "read between the lines" on these (and MANY other) forums and I know the trigger words. "Minimum work", "by the book", "What they did in Flying the Line", etc., etc.
You can't fool me, and you can't fool management.
But I will concede that the "war talk" is over and see if we can get back to the contract discusion. So you say your flummoxed. For pilots, I would say vexed but I like your style. So let's have at it.
WHAT DO AND DON'T YOU LIKE ABOUT THE OFFER. Let's keep it real and maybe we can all come to some meeting of the minds. OK?
11-14-2014 | 10:08 AM
#169
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 5,299
Likes: 0
From: A320 Capt
The 2016 parity adjustment provides for an average of DL/UA A320 and 737 RATES(not profit sharing), with the other fleets being adjusted in proportion.
"The review process looks at pay rates of B-737 and A-320 Captains at Delta and United.
The resultant parity adjustment derived from this review will then be applied to all other groups-not to exceed the average of United and Delta in any single Group.
The final result may change depending on potential early pay increases at Delta and United Rates prior to the 2016 review."
This turd isn't even industry average, much less industry leading. The per hour pay rates are, for now. My point is that we signed on to this and we I don't think we have the leverage to get what we deserve. If I'm wrong, show me and I will be glad to be wrong.
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