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Old 11-19-2014 | 08:26 AM
  #531  
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Originally Posted by justjack
Plus I don't know why everybody keeps talking like Delta is the only group in the MOU designated average
"Everybody" is saying that ?

I haven't seen everyone saying that here. In fact, I've repeatedly included UAL in that consideration.
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Old 11-19-2014 | 08:29 AM
  #532  
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Originally Posted by flyinawa
This is a poop fight of magnificent proportions.
  • APA would have accepted ANYTHING to get Horton gone and bought into Parker's line of BS. Now we have the lousiest MOU imaginable and we're badly over a barrel to improve it.
  • The upper seniority East pilots are blaming AA for accepting such a poor agreement even though they would happily have operated under a bankruptcy contract indefinitely because doing so held the Nic at bay. However, management was thanking them with all growth and new-hires.
  • The lower seniority East pilots are stuck in the middle of the East/West fight and are getting arrows thrown at them from both directions.
  • The West would have voted to merged with Satan's army if doing so would cause the East to be out numbered and force USAPA off the property. Now they're discovering they voted the last good QOL items in their contract right down the crapper.
This group needs to figure out a way to get some unity and figure it out quick. The company must be savoring the possibility of all out war within the ranks because it gives them the same type of East/West cost benefit that allowed them to control the largest airline in the world.
There are some pilots who post here I have considerable respect for (regardless of AA, US, or AW). There are some I don't agree with. And some of them I think are complete morons (they probably think the same about me). HOWEVER...The past is history. We can't change it. We need to suck it up, start holding hand, and singing some freaking kumbaya or we are destined to be trapped in this crap sandwich for a long, LONG time to come.
Sad, but true.....and simply yet ANOTHER reason why I'm convinced this carrier will NEVER be a DELTA, nor even a premier global competitor - A fragmented, oversized US Airways on steroids with employees angry at Parker, angry at the company, angry at each other. Not good for the customer. I don't think "job actions" will even be necessary, because the ship will fly off the rails all by itself simply by the inevitable by-product of what Doug FAILED to change, which has been my point all along as the "price" to be paid.

This is it folks, the future of the "new" AA..........just the old AA, but WORSE. Parker gets his costs, but at what price ?
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Old 11-19-2014 | 08:30 AM
  #533  
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Eaglefly, bro, you need to learn to loosen up. I appreciate your views but let's be honest, you've been wrong way more than correct on this merger. For a while you had everyone going about how the APA was going to staple the East guys, all your rhetoric does is scare the new hires.
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Old 11-19-2014 | 08:35 AM
  #534  
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Originally Posted by flyinawa
This is a poop fight of magnificent proportions.
  • APA would have accepted ANYTHING to get Horton gone and bought into Parker's line of BS. Now we have the lousiest MOU imaginable and we're badly over a barrel to improve it.
  • The upper seniority East pilots are blaming AA for accepting such a poor agreement even though they would happily have operated under a bankruptcy contract indefinitely because doing so held the Nic at bay. However, management was thanking them with all growth and new-hires.
  • The lower seniority East pilots are stuck in the middle of the East/West fight and are getting arrows thrown at them from both directions.
  • The West would have voted to merged with Satan's army if doing so would cause the East to be out numbered and force USAPA off the property. Now they're discovering they voted the last good QOL items in their contract right down the crapper.
This group needs to figure out a way to get some unity and figure it out quick. The company must be savoring the possibility of all out war within the ranks because it gives them the same type of East/West cost benefit that allowed them to control the largest airline in the world.
There are some pilots who post here I have considerable respect for (regardless of AA, US, or AW). There are some I don't agree with. And some of them I think are complete morons (they probably think the same about me). HOWEVER...The past is history. We can't change it. We need to suck it up, start holding hand, and singing some freaking kumbaya or we are destined to be trapped in this crap sandwich for a long, LONG time to come.
Great post!

I agree with you about our current state, and people need to look around when they say we can whip Parker. We have LAA, LUS, LTWA, LAWA and who knows whatever else, all rowing in different directions, with different goals.

We need to get the best contract we can, get through the SLI and focus the coming frustrations like a laser on 2019.

I've gone a few rounds with a lot of west guys but you had some great contract items. The long rate was on the top of my list, and would like to see some kind of credit restored for the 24+ hour overnights. FAR 117 produced a lot more of them and I was disappointed that the APA gave up the 1 for 3.25 rig for a dime an hour per diem. In May I figured that cost me about $1500.

I'd also like to see the term of the contract shortened, not lengthened. That truly is a no cost item.

One good thing the company offered was the raise in new hire pay. The current is an abomination.

Good luck to us all.
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Old 11-19-2014 | 08:37 AM
  #535  
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Originally Posted by inline five
Eaglefly, bro, you need to learn to loosen up. I appreciate your views but let's be honest, you've been wrong way more than correct on this merger. For a while you had everyone going about how the APA was going to staple the East guys, all your rhetoric does is scare the new hires.
What ?

Staple the East guys ?

LOL !!!, Anyone who is familiar with my SLI positions knows that such a claim is preposterous. 66, if you want some credibility, might I suggest you get your facts straight ?

If this was your attempt to "sick the East hounds" on me, even they know I've made a lot statements they vehemently disagree with, but claiming I said anyone was stapling ANYONE is absurd. Nice try, but call Jerry and request your new orders. Perhaps they'll be more effective.
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Old 11-19-2014 | 08:44 AM
  #536  
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Originally Posted by flyinawa
This is a poop fight of magnificent proportions.
  • APA would have accepted ANYTHING to get Horton gone and bought into Parker's line of BS. Now we have the lousiest MOU imaginable and we're badly over a barrel to improve it.
  • The upper seniority East pilots are blaming AA for accepting such a poor agreement even though they would happily have operated under a bankruptcy contract indefinitely because doing so held the Nic at bay. However, management was thanking them with all growth and new-hires.
  • The lower seniority East pilots are stuck in the middle of the East/West fight and are getting arrows thrown at them from both directions.
  • The West would have voted to merged with Satan's army if doing so would cause the East to be out numbered and force USAPA off the property. Now they're discovering they voted the last good QOL items in their contract right down the crapper.
This group needs to figure out a way to get some unity and figure it out quick. The company must be savoring the possibility of all out war within the ranks because it gives them the same type of East/West cost benefit that allowed them to control the largest airline in the world.
There are some pilots who post here I have considerable respect for (regardless of AA, US, or AW). There are some I don't agree with. And some of them I think are complete morons (they probably think the same about me). HOWEVER...The past is history. We can't change it. We need to suck it up, start holding hand, and singing some freaking kumbaya or we are destined to be trapped in this crap sandwich for a long, LONG time to come.
I may just come in every hour and mash the quote button so this ends up on every page! I hope people will listen.
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Old 11-19-2014 | 08:45 AM
  #537  
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Originally Posted by eaglefly
What ?

Staple the East guys ?

LOL !!!, Anyone who is familiar with my SLI positions knows that such a claim is preposterous. 66, if you want some credibility, might I suggest you get your facts straight ?

If this was your attempt to "sick the East hounds" on me, even they know I've made a lot statements they vehemently disagree with, but claiming I said anyone was stapling ANYONE is absurd. Nice try, but call Jerry and request your new orders. Perhaps they'll be more effective.
Paranoid much? Inline isn't R66, and he isn't a Jerry Glass minion.
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Old 11-19-2014 | 08:54 AM
  #538  
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Originally Posted by Hueypilot
Paranoid much? Inline isn't R66, and he isn't a Jerry Glass minion.
I can't tell the difference, so I refer to them as one.

His last post was either a deliberate misrepresentation in a failed attempt to discredit me or he's just throwing mud at the wall hoping something sticks. It was a miserable failure and put his motives and credibility more in question then mine. But, it's O.K. I know most of the East guys aren't onboard with AA pilots or APA and again, we'll all lose in the end. Like it or not, the curse of USAPA is a gift that keeps on giving.
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Old 11-19-2014 | 09:19 AM
  #539  
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Originally Posted by eaglefly
I can't tell the difference, so I refer to them as one.

His last post was either a deliberate misrepresentation in a failed attempt to discredit me or he's just throwing mud at the wall hoping something sticks. It was a miserable failure and put his motives and credibility more in question then mine. But, it's O.K. I know most of the East guys aren't onboard with AA pilots or APA and again, we'll all lose in the end. Like it or not, the curse of USAPA is a gift that keeps on giving.
If I was wrong about the staple then I apologize.
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Old 11-19-2014 | 09:29 AM
  #540  
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Originally Posted by eaglefly
I can't tell the difference, so I refer to them as one.

His last post was either a deliberate misrepresentation in a failed attempt to discredit me or he's just throwing mud at the wall hoping something sticks. It was a miserable failure and put his motives and credibility more in question then mine. But, it's O.K. I know most of the East guys aren't onboard with AA pilots or APA and again, we'll all lose in the end. Like it or not, the curse of USAPA is a gift that keeps on giving.
I know inline and he's not deliberately trying to discredit you. Calm down. He's a line pilot just like the rest of us, and he's certainly not a "Usapian".
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